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Would you encourage someone to come to China in search of a job with an L or an F visa with the intention of changing it to a Z visa, regardless of the province ? |
Yes |
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25% |
[ 8 ] |
No |
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74% |
[ 23 ] |
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Total Votes : 31 |
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Lorean
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 476 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Entering China on a L-visa to evaluate potential employers, sign contracts and determine if you can live here, is fine so long as you do not commence work without a Z-visa. Given the current situation, you should expect to have to return to your home country to process your Z-visa.
Entering China on an L-visa/F-visa commencing work at some random "Pink Rainbow English" school is not recommended. |
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Moon Over Parma

Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 819
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Danwei |
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North China Laowei wrote: |
Dear Moon Over Parma,
Forgive me but I checked out www.danwei.org and found it particularly worthless. Lots and lots of very, very stale job postings and lots of information that seemed as if it had been lifted from the China Daily. I found absolutely nothing about the visa issue that you mentioned above.
NCL |
HFG,
If you didn't find links and articles then clearly you didn't visit the site. Their archived posts proves your observation wrong. On the other hand, given how the majority of China based bloggers and journalists regularly give praise to Danwei.org and its crew for the diversity and accuracy of information; clearly many of us see it for what it is. |
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erica63
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 24
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Lorean wrote: |
Entering China on a L-visa to evaluate potential employers, sign contracts and determine if you can live here, is fine so long as you do not commence work without a Z-visa. Given the current situation, you should expect to have to return to your home country to process your Z-visa. |
Here's my dilemma: I plan to enter on an L-visa (which I have already obtained) in June for these very reasons, fully intending to obtain a Z-visa before working. I want to commit to less than 6 months and am weary of employers who will take me over the internet, especially since I've never been to China before and am not sure what to expect. I am planning to travel to Hong Kong to switch it but could travel anywhere is Asia that is cheaper than going to the U.S. It seems like Killian's requirement to return to the U.S. is due to an extenuating circumstance. It is an actual likelihood that I--or any other run-of-the-mill teacher with a TEFL and Bachelor's--will not be able to obtain a Z-visa in Asia? Are there other places I could go besides HK? |
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Lorean
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 476 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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erica63 wrote: |
Lorean wrote: |
Entering China on a L-visa to evaluate potential employers, sign contracts and determine if you can live here, is fine so long as you do not commence work without a Z-visa. Given the current situation, you should expect to have to return to your home country to process your Z-visa. |
Here's my dilemma: I plan to enter on an L-visa (which I have already obtained) in June for these very reasons, fully intending to obtain a Z-visa before working. I want to commit to less than 6 months and am weary of employers who will take me over the internet, especially since I've never been to China before and am not sure what to expect. I am planning to travel to Hong Kong to switch it but could travel anywhere is Asia that is cheaper than going to the U.S. It seems like Killian's requirement to return to the U.S. is due to an extenuating circumstance. It is an actual likelihood that I--or any other run-of-the-mill teacher with a TEFL and Bachelor's--will not be able to obtain a Z-visa in Asia? Are there other places I could go besides HK? |
With the current situation (Olympics), none of us really knows what the government is doing with visa regs.
A foreign teacher at my school was on an L visa had his residence permit application rejected last month, whereas another teacher's application was accepted. You should be fully financially prepare to make the trip back to the U.S. to obtain your visa. |
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Moon Over Parma

Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 819
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Eyrick3

Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 161 Location: Beijing, China
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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I NEVER see anyone asking these people why they don't just start out on the right foot and do the preliminary work stateside. |
Procuring a work visa, especially right now with the Olympics, takes about 6 weeks, if you live in a city with a Chinese embassy, and hundreds of dollars. Why would someone waste their time and money when they can just wait for their employer to do it for them?
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Why does he want to come in under the radar? |
Most people don't want to "come in under the radar". Instead, they're told that they can get their visa changed once they arrive. Unfortunately, more often than not, employers lie about this during the recruiting process. So, no, these people aren't "trolls", but those who were either a) taken advantage of, or b) didn't do their homework beforehand.
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WHY so many people prefer not to take care of business at home |
Money, time, they don't know any better. See above.
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Please don't flame me. I am merely asking for enlightenment, not trouble. |
You're not asking very politely. I can think of a hundred more polite and positive ways to go about asking for the information that you want than implying that everyone who comes into China on a tourist visa is ignorant or a "troll".
Most people just don't know better.
The reality is that everyone will promise a visa once you arrive, and that most will not (or cannot) live up to those promises. This is why it's important that everyone thoroughly research their prospective employer before making the commitment to fly halfway across the world. |
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senorfay

Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 214
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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I got a job with a poo-poo company over the Internet, had all the proper documents, flew into Hong Kong before heading to Harbin, got my Entry visa sorted out there, worked for the company and quit three months later with Foreign Expert permit and RP in hand, had a few issues 9 months later when the RP ran out, but I was able to take care of the issues without bribes or paying any of my own money.
The point is this: it's idiotic to come in on the wrong visa. I knew it from the beginning. There were schools I was looking at who told me they could change my visa for me, but I flipped them the bird and moved on. I know some Russians who teach on a business visa, but that's their deal and they tell people they're from New Zealand to explain their accent away. I say come in on the Z, feel free to quit your job, and keep moving until you meet the right people and find the right school.
Sometimes you need to eat sh1t before the ambrosia. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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During normal times, I'd say that entering a country, in this case China on something other than a work visa is advisable,BUT at this "special" time in China-No,not advisable at all. |
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samhouston
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 418 Location: LA
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I say come in on the Z, feel free to quit your job, and keep moving until you meet the right people and find the right school. |
Since this is a thread about doing things properly... I thought the above was a big no-no. Won't the school cancel the working permit (or resident permit or whatever it is they can cancel) if you leave? And if they do, what does that even mean? Especially if you've already left the scene, you won't even know what awaits you the next time your credentials get plugged into the system when you either find a new job, or try to exit the country, etc. |
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Kram

Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 152 Location: In a chair
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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samhouston wrote: |
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I say come in on the Z, feel free to quit your job, and keep moving until you meet the right people and find the right school. |
Since this is a thread about doing things properly... I thought the above was a big no-no. Won't the school cancel the working permit (or resident permit or whatever it is they can cancel) if you leave? And if they do, what does that even mean? Especially if you've already left the scene, you won't even know what awaits you the next time your credentials get plugged into the system when you either find a new job, or try to exit the country, etc. |
I not 100% sure, but I always understood the 'z' was cancelled, by the school, if a teacher left??? |
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senorfay

Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 214
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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That's what everyone thinks, but it wasn't true for me. After I left that school and worked somewhere else, I was able to get a new foreign expert permit. I left the country twice and came back in without any problems. I was able to renew my z visa without hassels.
One thing I did have to do was 'apologize' to my old school. They also charged me 200RMB or something like that for a blanket they let me use before I went and got my own apartment that I paid for.
I think the fact that I only worked for cash and didn't have company housing is what helpedmy cause.
In the end, as has been said before, the 'free' housing is a method they use to control us. My current employer has no idea where I live. When we registered with the cops, they said I lived in one of their apartments because the truth is that I don't know my address.
Maybe I'm not doing everything perfectly, but the few screw-ups or infractions I've commited haven't caused me any problems.
Although, maybe my bosses pay enough in bribes to get anything done. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Your Z Visa (FRP actually) is tied to your employer.
Your school is supposed to convert it to a 30 day L visa if you leave with more than 30 days remaining on your FRP.
Some do, some don't, but if you are working on a previous employer's FRP, it isn't legal.
These days, you'll want a Letter or Release and Letter of Recommendation too before leaving your old school.
The visa situation has tightened up a bit these days. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: |
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if you leave the school, the school does have the right to have the RP cancelled, but I think most do not. Time effort and a loss of face.
As long as the 1st school didn't cancel your RP, and your RP is still current, you should be able to have the new school extend the RP.
THough I have to wonder if you still have 4 or 5 months left on the RP if the PSB might not make some phone calls |
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mandu
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 794 Location: china
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I came to china from England on a vistors visa and with a one way plane ticket,i did have a job to go to.i had no trouble at all getting in to the country |
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Heifer
Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 23 Location: Bundang
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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<<Why would ANYONE leave his home country in search of work without securing the proper visa first? >>
Thanks for asking this question. I tried to research it before I went to China but couldn�t find info on proper procedures for Z visas.
The reason why I went to China before I got the proper Z visa even though I had been hired beforehand by a Korean international school in Beijing was that the person who hired me told me that I had to get a tourist visa (L visa) before I could get a working visa (Z visa). I tried to research the visas, but I didn�t find much info. The school wanted me there 6 days after they gave me the offer, so I didn�t have much time! I knew it sounded very strange to have to pretend to be a tourist to come to China to get a work visa, but the director of the English Dept. at this school told me that this was what I had to do. I had worked in Korea for 4 years and always got my working visas in the USA before I came to Korea, but I was not familiar with Chinese regulations.
I thought I couldn�t get the temporary Z (work) visa until I had an official Chinese physical. This was not true. Everybody at my school got the physical after the trip to Hong Kong for the temporary Z visa, and the physical was very routine and very simple. No problem.
My school required all of their new teachers to begin working on tourist visas. They have a policy of not getting proper work visas for their �part-timers� who often teach as many hours but don�t have to stay all day. The woman told us this was proper procedure. After about 3 weeks of working, the head of the English Dept. came into my classroom as my class was about to start telling me to �sign this� without reading it. I looked and saw something about paying $500 to $2000 if I didn�t finish my contract and the school paying the same if they terminated my contract early. I told her I couldn�t sign a document like that without giving it proper attention. She became very angry and told me that my visa would be delayed and that I would have to pay to extend my tourist visa. I told her that my tourist visa was good for a year.
The only reason why I had accepted this job was that the school had advertised two 2-month paid vacations. In reality, the summer vacation is only 1 month, and the winter vacation was also shorter than advertised. The �paid vacations� are also paid at lower rates than regular months, which the ad didn�t tell. I wanted to leave from the day I arrived and learned of the false advertising, so signing a document saying I would pay $500-$2000 if I didn�t finish my contract was very serious!!! She told me I had to sign the document right then before my class, but I was too responsible to do that! I talked to her after my class and told her I had concerns about my health because of the toxic Beijing air pollution that had kept me in bed for 3 straight weeks outside of work hours. I had managed to go to all my sclasses when I was very ill. She didn�t say that I could sign it then.
When I felt well enough to give the document attention, I reluctantly signed it even though I think it is wrong to have somebody move half-way around the world due to false advertising!!! I wanted to go home when I arrived in Beijing, but a plane ticket home costs over $1000, and I had already spent $301 for a rush tourist visa!
After I signed the document and gave it to the head of the English Dept., she laughed at me. She didn�t want to get me a legal Z work visa. She told me that Z visas are very special and they only get them once per semester for the full-timers, but I could get one next year or next semester. �They don�t want to do it for just you.�
After researching legalities, I insisted that she get me a Z visa if she wanted me to continue working. She started the process as long as I would pay for all the taxis for the school to transport documents, but she was very bitter about it and wanted to stick to her policy of only getting visas once per semester for all teachers at the same time.
Here is what I spent on visas:
Tourist visa with rush fees, FedEx fees,
and agent fees because the school needed me so fast $301.00
Taxi to visa office for KISB to deliver my documents $14.00 (100 RMB)
Taxi to airport to Hong Kong $ 6.86 (48 RMB)
Taxi from Beijing airport to apt. $9.2 (65 RMB)
Airfare to and from Shenzhen $354.29 (2480 RMB)
Bus from Shenzhen to Hong Kong $12.82 (100 HKD)
Bus from Hong Kong to Shenzhen $12.82 (100 HKD)
Transportation in Hong Kong $5 (39 HKD)
Hotel in Hong Kong $120.51 (940 HKD)
Temporary z visa with rush fee $181 (1270 HKD)
Physical $92.07 (644.5 RMB)
Mail physical results to school $4.29 (30 RMB)
Taxi to physical $4 (28 RMB)
Taxi from physical to school $3.71 (26 RMB)
Photos $10.49 (72 RMB)
Total $ 1132.06
I never recovered any of this money!
After the results of my physical came back, the head of the dept came to speak to me in a very strange mood. She told me that I had been very difficult because I had not signed the visa document without reading it. That is when I told her there was a more efficient way to get the visa, and she said. �In �dat� case, your contract is cancelled, I will stop the Z visa process. When do you want to leave?�
I went and talked to the Principal at that point, but he didn�t speak much English. I think he understood that things had not been done right, but I went ahead and left. It was not worth it to waste my work on such an unprofessional organization. I thin the Principal may have given me airfare home if I had waited for it, but I had to get out of there.
Her English was not very good, and most people in the office can only speak Chinese and Korean, so I had difficulty communicating.
In reality, I had wanted to leave from the day I arrived and found out the want ad had falsely advertised two 2-month paid vacations when the truth was that they were one month. If it hadn�t cost over $1000 to go home and if I hadn�t already spent $301 on a tourist visa and more money to get started, I would have left Beijing as soon as I talked to this unprofessional person.
I want people to know that a school that won�t do the work upfront is not a professionally run school. I completed 5 contracts in Korea including 2 universities, and they all mailed me my visa documents to the USA. If a school won�t do that, it is a sign that they don�t have their act together. This school made me pay for taxis to carry documents to the visa office, and they were way too cheap to pay for postage upfront to send me the visa documents.
You do not change visas from L to Z. You pay for a new visa and lots of other expenses.
What a nightmare! I am so glad to not waste but 2.5 months working for such and unprofessional organization, but I wish I had left on the first day even though it would have cost me about$1500!
Be careful about those want ads! Go over them line by line with the person who hires you because they may have delegated the want ad to another person and not been professional enough to read them as was the case at this school. |
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