Job Discussion Forums

[Jordean]

Has anyone ever had the experience of having signed and returned a university contract, waiting on the letter of invitation, and then had the uni hire someone else (prior to sending the letter of invitation of course)?

I have signed on with one uni, but it will take them a month to get the letter to me (they say). Can I take this to the bank, or could they still hire another person in my place (leaving me little real recourse)?

I hate to think this way, but I have had lots of unis contact me, send copies of the contract, and then tell me they had hired someone else.

Are you really committed prior to actually showing up? (That is, do the unis really consider the deal sealed before you arrive.)

Where exactly does this mystical meeting of the minds really take place? I keep getting 'burned' and don't want to turn down all others only to find the offer wasn't as final as I thought.

In another vein, is it usual to sign and return contracts to multiple universities, as a precaution?

[Trish Flurman]

The job is not yours until you have a signed legal contract, issued a Z-visa, issued a Foreign Expert Certificate, and are in China. Until you have those things neither party is committed.

[arioch36]

Would disagree on a key point.

When the invitation letter is issued the job is yours. The school does not issue a z-visa, this the teacher gets themselves. If you show up i China on a z-visa, with the invitation letter from the school, legally the school would have to return the expenses of you coming if they didn't give you the job.

Never heard of this happening.

The e-mail contract has legal bearing, but ... forget these legal words... you and the school have suffered no loss if one side terminates the relationship before the issuance of the invitation letter.

usual? Give the school a deadline, and negotiate with 6 0r 8 schools at the same time.

I don't believe it is proper to sign multiple contracts. But a week is enouh time for them to get the invitation letter and fax it to you.

[Jordean]

My Beijing offer will take about a month to get the letter. I am assuming they would attribute it to the local authorities taking time to approve my work permit. This is the contract I signed and faxed.

In the meantime...a small school in Hunan has offered me a position. In many ways (quality of life) superior.

No letters issued yet.

Do Unis ever issue a letter w/o your first signing a K?

It sounds like I would have to rescind my agreement with Uni 1 if I want to put myself in the running with Uni 2. I have a third school that also sent a contract for my signature, but I have not sent anything to Unis 2 or 3...

I suppose I could ask one of them what they think. Probably would torpedo my chances with that one, however...

Interesting.

I only ask because two other schools took me right to the brink, even sending 'sample' contracts, but shortly thereafter informed me the jobs were no longer available. I was just curious at what point the Unis stop looking at any laowai who walks through the door.

[Leon Purvis]

The contract that the school sends you is for your inspection only. You can sign it, but it doesn't mean diddly until you arrive there and both parties sign it, regardless of your z visa.

I've seen people arrive, take a look around, then split.

The letter of invitation won't be issued to you by the provincial government until about six weeks (or less) before your scheduled arrival in China. This is to prevent you from arriving in China with nowhere to live.

This has been my experience. Results may vary. Don't try this at home. caveat emptor. Semper ubi sub ubi, etc., etc., etc.,

[Jordean]

Thanks, that would have been my assumption, especially since it favors my position.

I don't want to get blacklisted anywhere, but I also don't want to get to 30 days before departure and get the "dear John" letter. I am assuming at this point a university might still pull an offer if a more appealing (??) prospect walked through the door.

Neither of the jobs I am looking at requires much more than the proverbial trained monkey, so replacing me at this point would not be an undue burden.

Since the school is in Beijing, with a surplus of lao wai, this is not beyond the realm of possibility.

[Leon Purvis]

[Jordean]

The first job isn't bad, but the second one is much nicer in many respects.

Timing is everything.

[arioch36]

NYCity always accepted the fax. Also, if you get the fax, you can know immediately.

I do agree that it is a bit early for these letters, hadn't really thought about it.

But My feeling is that if no letter, you are free to change jobs. Personally, once I get the letter, I feel I have made a committment , unless something big changes

[Jordean]

Thanks. That seems like a reasonable take. I foresee teaching at a kindergarten in Korea come next Autumn...

[flutterbayou]

Sometimes the universities wait until they collect a group of people who will start at the same time and then send in the paperwork toward obtaining permission for the Foreign Expert document.

It may very well be that someone told you it would take a month because:
A. the seasonal high on apps might cause a back-up right now, or
B. they are holding off until they can submit a full list of names, as mentioned above.

Once they get this confirmation, they will send you the letter of invitation for you to process your z visa, and so on.

I once changed my plans after receiving the full invitation letter and verification towards the foreign expert status, and the only request made was that I send back that letter.

No other problems arose.

However, has anyone here ever left China while their existing multiple entry visa was still good and then applied for re-entry to China with a new organization? Hypothetically, would the PSB in one region raise issue with a foreigner for returning to another province to teach?

I ask because a former colleague did leave and questions his ability to return. I don't have the answer for this one but figure that if he re-applies with all the proper criteria for a z visa, there would be no outstanding issues to face.

[profM]

It almost always takes one month for a well run, good state university to get approval from the government for the issuance of a letter of invitation under the most benign of circumstances, irrespective of the school's desire to accumulate applicants. It should take one additional month account of the government procedures, added to whatever time the school may delay for their own reasons or needs or standard operating procedures.

[flutterbayou]

This is not true at all. We are not talking about accumulating applicants; we are talking about setting up staff in an organized manner.

The very best schools can have paperwork ready in ten to fifteen days if a single application is submitted but it is more time efficient for FAO to receive a full packet.

With over seven years in China, I can attest to the Office of Foreign Affairs' occasional request that the list of hirees and returns be submitted together, as a matter of convenience.

The bottom line is that if you decide not to take on the contract with the first group that invited you, let them know as soon as you decide, because (1) they will not cause you problems and (2) you will save them loads of timely paperwork processing.

[arioch36]

[Jordean]

I am not in-country yet, so this is a slightly different scenario...