Job Discussion Forums

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

I work at a Cdn. uni. We have a total of 12 instructors in our dept. Not one of them is a "bad" teacher or unstable (except perhaps me). I'd say over 75% are very good to excellent. The adminstrator is competent and supportive (even if the rest of the university is not). We are paid decently, but not for the unpaid hours.

Hardly the picture in the article.

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

Good read...but it didn't surprise me that the TEFL loser couldn't even kill himself.Get to the Middle East and earn some dosh.When you've run out and you've got no pension, go and buy a fake gun and do a bank job.Prison will be a luxury....3 meals a day,free gym,tv,snooker,footy and they'll even be mixed in a few years..so nooky too....it'll be a step up for all those teaching in places like France.

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:22 pm Post subject:

ntropy,

I think the situation is VERY different if you've got a full-time job in a good univeristy, compared to when you're working freelance with no guarantees and no benefits.

Fair enough, though, the author could have got off his ass and looked for a better deal. But some "freelance" school managers do want to have it both ways: they demand a high degree of availabiility from their teachers, but guarantee next to nothing in return. I suppose it's a supply-and-demand thing: if there are lots of teachers out there willing to work for poor conditions, why offer tham anything more?

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

Cleopatra,

Not really so different.

I've also done 5 years in Japan and 3 in the Middle East and never come across the situation's as bad as mentioned in the article.

I'm not a PollyAnna and am considering leaving the field and changing careers.

Yes, there are problems and even at a uni. This is the third time I've worked for this uni. I quit the first two times to go overseas and then came back. Short term contracts with no guarantee until student bums were in seats. Our previous two Directors were less than exemplary. No support. Overworked. Over double pay to go overseas and fewer hours. Lots of people willing to work for peanuts even here. My director has never heard of a CELTA. How does he decide who to hire? More difficulties overseas due to lack of organization/ability but I'd go back tomorrow if my old job opened again. I ran the dept there and any bad situation was my own. Of course, all the other staff were locals so I never had to deal with dysfunctional ESL teachers, who were a laughing joke amongst the other expats in the company.

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

If it was so great I wouldn't have quit twice.

If it was so terrible, I wouldn't have come back.

Six of one, a half dozen of another.

sidjameson · Joined: 11 Jan 2004 Posts: 629 Location: osaka

Am I the only one who found it funny? Yes I do think the writer is one of those who thinks that poverty is relative. My ferrari is 3 years old boohoo. Teaching almost anywhere gives you a reasonable life style in my experience. But I recognized the truth and sadly myself in a lot of what he was saying.
Come on, how many of us were in crap jobs before we did this? EVERYBODY that I've met. When do you hear, " well I had a penthouse apartment in Chelsea and was being offered the managment of our Far Eastern division, but I said efl that I'll pack it all in give my model girlfriend the heave ho and see if I can get a job in a language school"
English teachers are a nice bunch but the long termers are a bit of a sad case you have to admit.
Me? I am the laziest *beep* that I've ever met. No way was I going to make it in the Uk. TEFL has been the best thing I've ever done. Unlike the suicidal Scotsman in the article though I lucked out in that I, and this suprizes nobody more than me, am REALLY good at teaching and was thus able to motivate myself enough to work hard and save 100,000 pounds, in 5 years in Japan.
BUT I haven't deluded myself into thinking that I could rise above anything above delivery boy back in dear old blighty.

senor boogie woogie

Hola!

Teaching TEFL is not a bad way to make a living, and I would highly suggest it for people just out of college. You can make a decent living at this, if you are willing to be a minority in another culture.

GOOD JOBS
The Middle Eastern nations pay great salaries, up to 40K USD a year, tax free, with a place to live rent free. Of course there is no booze and the people do not take baths and there might be a psycho running around with a bomb in his pants, but hey, its 40K tax free!

In South Korea, I was making 500 USD with private students (take home). I did not pay rent, although I had to share the place with someone else, it still was not too bad. SK is cold as a witches t i t in the winter and the people are jerks. BUT, the food is wonderful, and Korean women are the best looking in Asia.

Taiwan pays decent too, but does not pay for anything, you have to rent your place, food etc. The hole I worked for made me buy my motorbike. Taiwan is noisy, polluted, full of Buddhas, motorbikes and cute little yellow girls. I liked Taiwan (don't drink the Taiwan beer)

Japan pays a minimum of 250,000 Yen per month, which is about 2000 USD a month, with housing provided, or paid by yourself and the school.

SO-SO
China is not too bad in the right places, one can make at least 12 dollars per hour teaching, probably more, with housing provided. I live in China and it has its ups and downs.

Vietnam pays about 12-15 per hour.

SUCKS
Crying or Very sad

Thailand pays about 700 USD and the government there is cracking doen on foreigners. I love Thailand (well, everyone does), but the pay is crappy.

Cambodia pays squat (5-6 bucks) an hour, but its cheap there and would be interesting for several monthes. A lot of stoners and weirdoes living there from what I have read.

I'm an American, so I cannot work in Europe legally. It seems to be too expensive there anyway (Would like to see Spain and Greece though)

What I am saying is that this is not a bad life. I met a man on my travels who ESL's part of the year in Saudi then returns to Udon Thani, Thailand with his wife and kid and 4 Bedroom house that he paid 20,000 USD for.

Senor

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Maybe some of us should submit some nasty responses to the newpaper that printed this article. I tried but these stupid computers in the internet cafe don't have outlook, so I can't send the message. And the telegraph doesn't post their email, you have to click here to send an email.

bud · Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 13

MindTraveller · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 89 Location: Oman

I agree with Bud.

In the UAE and Oman, non-Muslims can get 'liquor licenses' and buy a set amount of liquor each month (of course, the men can get twice as much as the women). The big hotels also serve liquor to Westerners. And yes, many Arabs drink (and are alcoholic) and yes, there are 'bars' in the big hotels which are suites and not publicized, for Arabs to go to.
Many of the Western hotels do not allow locals dressed in their local clothes into the bars or discos.

The newest thing I've noticed in Oman, is the sudden presence of many grocery stores selling the 'non-alcoholic beer'. It was also a popular item in Riyadh back in '84.

Many Arabs are over-sensitive about the 'dirty Arab' thing - because they didn't have enough water to wash. I mean - if you have to choose to drink or wash, which would YOU do. Nowadays they overcompensate. The housing the Saudis built for KSA in 1985 had FIVE bathrooms - 4 with Western toilets.

Here in Oman, in many houses and apartments (flats) many of the bathrooms are spacious.

Stereotyping 'all Arabs' is like thinking everyone in the USA is like a New Yorker or everyone in the UK is like a Londoner, although I must say, most of the people from the UK talk kinda funny Smile

A friend told me back in 1985, that Saudi Arabia was a 'third world country with a lot of money'. It's true. Development in Arabia is still new, including roads. Hospitals were a priority. Some places don't have electricity. And I'm a bit tired of taking pictures of the mud-brick buildings all over Oman. I mean, people still live in some of them, or they just moved out of them in the last 10-20 years.

Coming from a lower-class background, I find it easier to have compassion for my students and their families, then perhaps some teachers who haven't struggled as hard for mere existence. Arabs, and others in devleoping countries, have lives in major transition. I know the transition of little money beyond survival to having extra money for gold, holidays, and gifts to my family.

A person or teacher who lacks compassion, is not a person I would like or call a friend. Nor does compassion mean going native.

I also have to admire people who have survived living in the desert so long......

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Well, a very interesting article. Just to bring some hope to the eternal life of struggle that it suggests...I have bought a flat, am married and earn more that I ever would in my home country. Not every day, but many, I walk out of my classroom with more energy and sense of accomplishment than I entered it..that can not be said for most of the jobs that people do. I have a pension plan and enough money to live on. Not as much as I would if I had followed a carreer path as an accountant or lawyer... as my degree would have suggested..but then I still have my soul...and the joy of the kids I have just taught today..and their accomplishments...and their sincere thanks for helping them..I am truly lucky indeed on some days in my job....and I still pay the bills for a very expensive flat in Hong Kong and go on holiday twice a year..I guess it depends on where you work..and why you do it..but anybody that really wants to make this job a career can do so..with good reward both financially and personally. Let those that have never known the joy of an excited classroom and students as their accomplishments go to their graves with the satisfaction of more money than they could ever spend still left in the bank....for me..I hope there is enough money left in the bank for my wife and future kids..a worry that EFL teachers share with the vast majority of the world. Far better to die with a sense of achievement than the weight of a wasted life...and so ends my soliloqy..no idea how to spell that word...but happy in what I do!!!!!!!

Dallas22 · Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 8

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

once again,
how did you get a pension plan?

Dallas22, you can work legally, though it depends on your experience, qualifications, and your employeer.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Nature girl, everybody that works in HK and earns over a certain amount must pay into a scheme called the MPF, Mandatory Provident Fund. 5% comes from the employer and 5% from the employee. As long as I keep working in HK I must, and my employer must pay into the plan. It is not perfect but I would rather have it than not. I also have another private plan that my wife and I have taken out.