Job Discussion Forums

[Kootvela]

I'm deviating from the original post here but it's a surprise to me that people do fail certificate mill courses. I do know that it's the reputation of the course provider at stake but what has one got to do to fail that bad?

[spiral78]

Well, for example, I can think of one candidate who could not be passed because his accent was very far out of the standard range (New Orleans, in his case).

Another unsuccessful candidate I remember simply couldn't break his accustomed pattern of lecturing. Any question put to him by a student engendered a seemingly uncontrollable lecture mode which was incompatible with the communicative approach the course certificate guaranteed the student was more or less competent in.

I can also remember a candidate whose lack of people skills and tact was manifested both with students and with trainers - the course providers simply couldn't put their good name at the clear risk he would offend future students/employers after being 'checked out' by the course providers. He had anger management problems and his accustomed method of dealing with rage was to pound walls, regardless of what else was going on around him, but this was also manifested in much milder ways - but we knew he was a potential powder keg.

I remember a couple of women over the years who simply couldn't manage to show up anything like on time for their classes on the course - and we had to assume that this behaviour was likely to carry over into their future employment.

A girl who insisted on wearing clothing that showed her belly ring, despite clear pre-course instructions regarding appropriate clothing for the course (business casual) and repeated requests during the course to respect the students and teaching context by simply zipping her jacket.

The girl who was really hung up on playing air guitar as a teaching technique - though it clearly didn't facilitate language learning.

Honestly, I've seen quite a few people not make it, or be required to repeat segments of courses. The worst course record that I recall was one in Prague back in 1998 where only 3 of 13 students passed in the end - some dropped out early, and some just weren't able to perform anywhere near the normal range due to personality or alchohol problems.

I hope this doesn't sound like a Grinchy post - obviously most candidates willing to put the time, energy, and money into taking a course ARE able to succeed - but it is by no means a given that, because one has paid for a course, he/she is automatically going to pass.

[Justin Trullinger]

Here, blowing a whistle would be seen by students (who aren't dogs, they would say), as extremely degrading, demeaning, and condescending. It might work in one class, but it would create a circumstance that would pretty much rule out ANY positive relationship with those students in the future. In other cultures, it might not create these kind of problems. That's why I say that teaching is never "one-size-fits-all."

CELTA trainers are there to consult with participants about classroom situations. They should be used before anything dramatic is tried, especially if the dramatic action is unorthodox, not based on any literature or resource, and could potentially be offensive.

Another comment:

[mcl sonya]

Never got a celta certificate, but I had a similar experience. Most of my classes are pretty good, but I had one really rowdy class of 60 high school age students. It was a nightmare. I couldn't get them to shut up either. I started threatening to move people; while I was saying this, some people kept talking through this, a specific cluster of boys and one girl, and I tried to make them move. No matter how much I ordered them they wouldn't move. The girl kept her head bowed and was embarrassed, and after that I feel like she makes a point to be really good in my class. The boys didn't care. I didn't lose my temper but I was angry and the students sensed it; they didn't stop talking but throughout the class (I speak Chinese) they were saying in half serious voices, "Oooh! be careful, the teacher's mad!"

The next week I came in and I made them do a dictation of class rules, and threatened to make them do it every week if they continued being disruptive. I also asked them to think about *why* they were studying English, and how talking through class can possibly be of any use. I was really mad. They were surprised that I was mad. Apparently Chinese teachers normally don't care if you're a bad student; they move the good ones to the front of the class, and screw the rest. One student slept through this and I woke him up and said if he wasn't going to pay attention, then he might as well not come to class. He stopped coming for two months. I wondered if I shouldn't have done that. The rest of the students though said they think I'm really amazing for caring. And they actually are more quiet. Once they got really noisy and I threatened I would bring another dictation next week, and they quieted down.

I realized a couple things during this. I couldn't get them to shut up - but I could get them to do dictation, which they were used to doing. You can get them to do anything they're used to doing. Recitation? Piece of cake. I also noticed that they pay attention when you present things in a way where the whole class feels secure in shouting out answers and comments en masse throughout. I

You know, Chinese students call the majority of female teachers mother tigers and don't have a lot of love for them. but if you're young and personable and you chat a little bit with them - like, say hello and smile to individual students, ask, "How are you?" when you come in or at the beginning of class, if you establish some sort of rapport with them, during the class they behave better and enforce better behavior on their classmates. they'll want to make it easier for you.

[csfek]

When I'm trying to get my class of 18-20 year old university students to settle down, I usually just make eye contact with individual students that I see talking. If I can't catch their eye, then I'll say the names of the ones who are talking. That usually stops them from talking, and it's low-key, although it might take a bit longer than blowing a whistle. I think it works in my class because it's almost always the same core group of students who are chatting, not the whole class, and they're not being intentionally disrespectful. It's more like, they're young and want to talk to their friends and they sometimes get carried away with that.
If the whole class won't quiet down, at the beginning, for example, I'll make a joke, like "I know you guys are excited to see me, but it's time to get to work." That makes them laugh and calls attention to their behavior, which makes them quiet down.
I agree that every class is different and different techniques will work in different classes. That's why it's good to try a variety of techniques, to see what will work.

[KMT22]

First, I just want to thank everyone for the feedback. It's nice to know that this forum does have constructive things to say. After reading through all the posts, I have to say that I agree with Spiral. If I blew a whistle, singled out a student in order to shame them, or even attempted to fail them during a set task (not an option as I'm currently just practice teaching), I'm pretty sure that I would be reprimanded during feedback, as none of these are positive ways to fix the situation, and they do not in any way relate to the aims of my lesson. We did address classroom management techniques (after I taught this lesson, thanks trainers), and we have been putting techniques into practice. I do believe the students test you, and by reacting to their antics you give them a reason to continue to do so. I've found that silence and eye contact works, but the teacher has to be confident enough to hold the center of the classroom while not speaking over, cajoling the students, etc. (My last lesson was much better). Spiral, I agree on the topic of appropriate clothing (although some of the trainees obviously don't), and I generally wear dark or grey slacks, knee length skirts or dresses, heels, and blouses that do not show any inappropriate areas, so I believe I'm okay on that front.
So thanks everyone, and I'll keep checking to see if anyone else has anything to add, just keep in mind that I'm being observed by a CELTA trainer who basically holds my fate in his hands for the next three weeks.
Cheers.

[KMT22]

deviating from OP, but Spiral, thanks for those examples of people who fail, I've been wondering what it takes to not make it...makes me feel better about my chances

[spiral78]

If you just keep in mind that potential employers are looking for professionalism, reliability, and responsibility, you should really be ok.

It's simply that people who are going to make a bad impression on valuable
clients because of out-of-the normal range dress, unreliable habits, or unpredictable behavior can't be sent out with a stamp of approval.

Along with those few who honestly just can't grasp and apply (at least to some recognizable extent) the general teaching principles they are being taught. These are usually a very small minority.

Work with your trainers - in almost every case, they will work with you. Not that there aren't a few rogue trainers out there, but they are usually rare.

[sweeney66]

In my CELTA, and today three years later, I say "Quiet, please." or "Listen, please." Works for me.

[Kootvela]

Today I blew a whistle. It worked! Sure, that was a kids class. 28 of seven-to-nine year olds crawling all around me. Hey, it's a summer camp. Three weeks to go....

[arioch36]

[Justin Trullinger]

Coupla things:

[naturegirl321]

here we use Miss and the women's first name. Guys go by either Sir or Mr. plus their last name. I'm glad we women don't have to use last names, mine's 7 syllables long.

Teacher centred, to me implies that the teacher is doing all the talking. I think that the teacher has to have control, or be able to gain control. For example, if all the kids are talking and working, then the teaacher has to be able to do something to get theri attention.

[arioch36]

[arioch36]

Justin