|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Zorak03
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Guangzhou, Guangdong, China
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: Foreign Expert Certificates rejected!! Guangzhou |
 |
|
Well just a heads up to all those working in Guangzhou. Myself, and a few other teachers attempted, to renew/apply for a FEC; to our surprise we were all rejected!! The reasons included, didnt have the 2 years experience, no university degree and no tefl. My personal reason, I was told, was because I dont have a tefl certificate. The funny thing is, we have never had a problem getting FECs before (even FTs with no degree or tefl). $%@@%$^& olympics!!!
My school's new Foreign Affairs "expert" seems to know nothing about how the system works. I recommended that she takes the PSB officer out to dinner... Well, anyways, the good news is that I had no trouble obtaining a one-year-multi-entry L visa (60 days each entry) from the States, so at least I can come back. My school wants me to keep working, they claim they will sort out this little problem, but im worried about working on an L visa. I have my doubts that I will be able get a FEC until after the olympics. I do some Ebay trading and can support myself until after the little sporting event up north, but it will suck to lose my extra income. My job is, or was, a cush job, nice people, nice students, high pay and most importantly a great boss. I have just signed up for an online tefl course, maybe it will help, but I doubt it. Has anyone been rejected, or heard of people getting rejected, for FECs lately? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Foreign Expert Certificates rejected!! Guangzhou |
|
|
I just sent you a PM.
All the best. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
To add to what NCLW says here http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=63443, I will say what I know about visas in GZ:
1. You must have 2 years teaching experience documented in your resume.
2. You must be from the following locations: UK, Canada, USA, Australia/NZ.
3. For new visas, you must have a degree, TEFL/ROFL (online cert.) qualification.
4. You must resemble Wonderbread.
5. If you are starting at a new school, you must return to your place of origin for the visa.
6. If you are too young or too old, you will be rejected.
7. ANYONE from the 33 blacklisted countries: you will be rejected, and, despite the projected September 18th lifting of restrictions, you will not be eligible for a visa thereafter.
8. Those holding F visas: if you're in BJ, SH, or GZ, you can be detained at the airport when you are leaving China until such time as your tax paid status is determined. You may be required to pay the estimated amount of taxes on the spot unless you can provide proof that you've already paid taxes on whatever amount you've earned.
9. Those who are not from the U.K, USA, Canada, Australia/NZ but not on the 33-country blacklist may be asked to provide proof of English competence.
10. The fear of god/buddha is in the visa officials. Connections don't count for squat and visas issued outside of GZ, but inside of China, can lead to a rather long and uncomfortable interview with the PSB in less than a 5-star rating establishment.
11. If you're working for a school/organization not authorized to hire FTs, you will be asked to rat out your school/organization, then you will be given 10 days to leave the country.
12. There's "brownie points" to be had by ratting out unqualified FTs. You will provide the details and be thanked. Then you will be turfed as well.
Basically, if you're renewing with the same school/organization, you've kept your nose clean, and you meet the simple requirements for the visa/FRP, you will not have any problems (other than the extended wait to get your passport back).
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe C.
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sinobear wrote: |
To add to what NCLW says here http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=63443, I will say what I know about visas in GZ:
2. You must be from the following locations: UK, Canada, USA, Australia/NZ.
4. You must resemble Wonderbread.
6. If you are too young or too old, you will be rejected.
7. ANYONE from the 33 blacklisted countries: you will be rejected, and, despite the projected September 18th lifting of restrictions, you will not be eligible for a visa thereafter.
8. Those holding F visas: if you're in BJ, SH, or GZ, you can be detained at the airport when you are leaving China until such time as your tax paid status is determined. You may be required to pay the estimated amount of taxes on the spot unless you can provide proof that you've already paid taxes on whatever amount you've earned.
|
#2, 4 and 7 do not appear to be true. There are at least 1/2 a dozen universities in and around GZ where I personally know teachers holding passports from the Philippines and Nigeria who have recently obtained Z visa renewals.
#6 is true in that they are starting to demand work experience and a university degree, but there is no upper age limitation. Again, I know at least 2 old codgers working at a university in GZ that have obtained renewals on their Z visa.
#8 is not true. First of all, you cannot work on an F visa. Secondly, I have been flying in and out of GZ to Thailand on an almost monthly basis with people on F visas and there is nothing in the airport about taxation. Absolutely nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| the 33 blacklisted countries |
Can you post a link to this list if you have it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can do better, here's the list:
As long as your country is not on the following list, you are still eligible to apply for a China visa in Hong Kong or Macau. If you are on this list, you have to go back to your home country to apply for a visa: Afghanistan, Tunisia, Algeria, Bangladesh ,Congo, Egypt, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Libya, South Africa, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Malaysia, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Mauritania, Saudi Arab, Sierra Leone, Syria.
Here's the link: http://www.chinatravel.net/Forum/ForumTopicInfo.asp?Topic=314
And Joe C, I am the coordinator of my college and I've been dealing with the visas of my teachers. One Philippino was deported, another was rejected but then got her renewal after an appeal with the caveat that her application WILL NOT be considered for renewal again in the future.
You can work on an F visa - I did for two years (it has a lot to do with the wording of your contract). Whereas you don't know anyone who has been stopped for taxes, I do. Age limitation - I know of three 60+ people who have been denied extensions - the reason was not, "You're too old," but it certainly seems that way.
I bothered to post simply to help others avoid the time and expense of coming to GZ for a job when they might end up just getting not only rejected, but deported.
I shall reconsider such posts in the future.
Cheers!
There's always exceptions to everything in China. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe C.
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sinobear wrote: |
And Joe C, I am the coordinator of my college and I've been dealing with the visas of my teachers. One Philippino was deported, another was rejected but then got her renewal after an appeal with the caveat that her application WILL NOT be considered for renewal again in the future.
You can work on an F visa - I did for two years (it has a lot to do with the wording of your contract). Whereas you don't know anyone who has been stopped for taxes, I do. Age limitation - I know of three 60+ people who have been denied extensions - the reason was not, "You're too old," but it certainly seems that way.
I bothered to post simply to help others avoid the time and expense of coming to GZ for a job when they might end up just getting not only rejected, but deported.
I shall reconsider such posts in the future. |
Not sure what college that may be, but the fact still remains that there are several government universities in Guangzhou that have Filipinos and Nigerians and elderly on staff with Z visas.
Just because your school gets you a Z visa says more about your college than it does the legality of working on an F visa. 
Again, people are not stopped in the GZ Baiyun Airport's international terminal on taxes. Period.
Yes, if you try to extrapolate a limited experience at one college -- dubious at best -- when posting "facts," you should reconsider posting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: Sinobear |
|
|
| Sinobear wrote: |
I can do better, here's the list:
As long as your country is not on the following list, you are still eligible to apply for a China visa in Hong Kong or Macau. If you are on this list, you have to go back to your home country to apply for a visa: Afghanistan, Tunisia, Algeria, Bangladesh ,Congo, Egypt, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Libya, South Africa, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Malaysia, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Nepal, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Mauritania, Saudi Arab, Sierra Leone, Syria.
Here's the link: http://www.chinatravel.net/Forum/ForumTopicInfo.asp?Topic=314
And Joe C, I am the coordinator of my college and I've been dealing with the visas of my teachers. One Philippino was deported, another was rejected but then got her renewal after an appeal with the caveat that her application WILL NOT be considered for renewal again in the future.
You can work on an F visa - I did for two years (it has a lot to do with the wording of your contract). Whereas you don't know anyone who has been stopped for taxes, I do. Age limitation - I know of three 60+ people who have been denied extensions - the reason was not, "You're too old," but it certainly seems that way.
I bothered to post simply to help others avoid the time and expense of coming to GZ for a job when they might end up just getting not only rejected, but deported.
I shall reconsider such posts in the future.
Cheers!
There's always exceptions to everything in China. |
Sinobear,
Thank you for the helpful post. It rather mirrors what I know, what I have seen, and what I have been told.
As for the native-speaking issue, here is a cut-and-paste from a job advertisement for a branch school of Tsinghua University in Shenzhen that appeared in the China Job's Column of this very Board :
"Qualifications for All Positions
- Native speaker of the English language, from the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, or Ireland.
- a Bachelor's Degree, any discipline.
- teaching degree and/or ESL certificate an advantage
- a passion for teaching children a must
Please Note:
Due to government regulations citizens of non-English speaking countries cannot be certified as foreign experts and applications from such will not be considered. "
Now to address the issue Joe C. raised, it may true that he knows Nigerians, Filipinos, etc., etc., who have had their Z visas / residence permits renewed. I referred to this under another post in another topic. If the teacher has been "grandfathered" in in Guangzhou, meaning has taught at the same school before and is simply renewing the visa, then in most cases, the visa / residence permit will be rolled over. However, should there be a break-in-service, it is more than likely that a new visa will be denied.
I am personally aware of teachers from Kenya, Israel, the Philippines and even several teachers from the Canadian province of Quebec who were refused Foreign Expert Certificates for ESL positions in Guangzhou since April, 2008.
Additionally, I am further aware of more tragic matters -- for examples, husbands and wives, wherein the husband, a citizen of Canada, or the United States or Great Britain or Australia, who has been working at the same institution in Guangzhou for years rolled over his residence permit / Z visa with no problem. In the past, the wife was automatically issued a visa under the husband's cover. This year, however, should the spouse come from one of the thirty-three scheduled countries for non-issuance, the spouses have actually been refused spousal visas and been given ten-days to leave the country, manu militarii, so to speak. The husbands, who are all in great fear for their own jobs, simply shut up and put up with the matter. Apparently, the earliest that their respective spouses can be considered for spousal visas will be November 1, 2008.
As for the tax matter, Joe C., I have seen this go both ways : the manner in which you describe it and the manner in which Sinobear describes. Under the very fine point of the Guangzhou rules, an FT can, that is "may" be asked to produced tax receipts from his previous schools during the renewal process.
Again, as everyone has written, so much depends upon how "savvy" the Foreign Affairs Officer is, and what the conditions of his or her relations with the local Exit / Entry Control Police (the "visa" police) are.
After all, this is China and few things are cast indelibly in stone -- except for the fact that the visa situation is now quite stressful and different than in past years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Somewhat sad to say ,but that is business as usual in global ESL. Try going to Korea,Middle East etc without being a native English speaker,and in Europe they often ask for Brit accent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hairuo
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 473
Location: Somewhere in China
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrew_gz
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 502
Location: Reborn in the PRC
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info all!
Does anyone have any specifics on this tax at the border/airport issue?
How many cases? What occupation? When?
Thank you.
Andrew |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe C.
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| andrew_gz wrote: |
Thanks for the info all!
Does anyone have any specifics on this tax at the border/airport issue?
How many cases? What occupation? When?
Thank you.
Andrew |
It's a myth. There is no tax check at either the BJ or GZ airports. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you have a machine-readable passport, and an F visa, you can be checked for taxes. BJ, Sh, and GZ are linked and you can (note the word "can", it does not say you will be checked) be checked.
BTW, Joe C, my school also trains security personnel for the airports, you should come and have a peek to see just what a mere swipe of your passport reveals. It's all a matter of whether they'll make an issue out of it or not. Like anywhere, any time in China, you're either lucky, or you ain't. Just because it didn't happen to you, or your three friends, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I'm no newbie, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't know first hand that it does and can happen.
Two years ago, I had the PSB come a tappin' at my door (every year, I've had this happen, but it's routine, now). That particular year, there was a woman from the tax dep't. I was scared "bowelmovementless" at this because I was working on an F visa. I wasn't sure that my school (not my current school) was indeed submitting the money that they said they were deducting for taxes. I know three others (one at my current school, the other two friends of mine) who were asked to provide proof of taxes paid ON SUSPECTED earnings at Baiyun Int'l prior to their exit flight.
But then again, I suspect that Joe C actually wants to encourage all foreigners on the lam to come to GZ. Come one, come all - you are all guaranteed a limitless Z visa in GZ! No problems here, it's the easiest and best place in China for a hassle-free Z!
Give me a break, Joe C, anyone can read the Blogs, read the reports...GZ is the toughest place in China for receiving the Z/RPF.
I gather that you're white and fully credentialed, hence, no problem. I am too, but I know a lot of people who have been "excreting" bricks lately, and I've seen a lot of friends get their 10 day notice.
But then again, this is just a forum, where anyone can freely post against sane advice and contradict at will.
Do Enjoy!
Me? I just 'calls 'em as I sees 'em'
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrew_gz
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 502
Location: Reborn in the PRC
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Sinobear.
Suspected earnings ,what does that mean?
Any idea how they determine that?
And what was the outcome for these three?
Cheers,
Andrew |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
