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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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 Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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If you mean country of origin then for me, the way I feel right now, then probably never. For me there are specific circumstances, I grew up in Belfast in the heart of the Northern Ireland troubles and even though they're largely finished now, they really clouded my opinion of my hometown in a negative way. I'd been living a fairly nomadic lifestyle for eight years before I ever wrote on a whiteboard so EFL has been simply perfect for me. I have all I need in Riga right now, nice girlfriend, job I like, good lifestyle...
That said I had two very good years in Valencia and often harbour thoughts of returning there to what I regard as my "spiritual home" and there are other cities e.g. Berlin where I could quite happily spend a few years. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Justin said
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Home, to me, is where you decide to make your life. And that's here and now.
That is a nice view, but there are many people working in places which require work visas. That may not be an issue right now, but the question is about the future.
When they stop work, they can not stay, whether they want to or not, whether they consider it home or not. |
Need for visas is a fair concern, but I see two situations. One is that as long as I'm working, it won't be a problem, as the work provides the visa. The second is that when the time comes to consider retiring (still a long ways off), I hope to be in a situation to do so. This would mean having some financial stability, income that isn't dependent on work, and provisions for healthcare and housing. If I have these things in place, and I mean to, they're the same things (a positive bank balance, investement income, ownership of property) that open up the options for other visas than working ones in many countries. So if I choose to stay where I am, or to go elsewhere, there will be ways.
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| Re. the retirement question, I agree with the poster who points out that it's the same problem (financially) wherever you are, but there may be some health benefits attached to your home country |
I'm from the US.
And lastly:
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| I'm twenty-four and already having panic attacks about retirement. |
Knock it off. Take a few deep breaths, and remind yourself that you might get hit by a bus tomorrow. 
But seriously- I guess marrying (a lot of) money is an option, though you won't do yourself much good advertising it here. We're all teachers too, for heaven's sake!
Another option might be earning a lot of money. There are universities all over the world that pay well. Some people are shovelling it into their accounts pretty much hand over fist in some places in Asia.
With the right quals, there are places a TESOLer can make some dosh.
My plan is, loosely, to use stints in the well paid places to set myself up gradually in the lower cost of living places. Can work.
(What can I save in the Middle East? How much do I need to live on in Ecuador? The equation works out pretty well.)
Best,
justin |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| guty wrote: |
For those of you who don't think they will ever go back, how will you manage that?
Once you finish work, what will you do for an income?
Have you got health insurance, will you still be covered when you retire?
Have you got a house? Have you got permanent residency? Are you married to a local?
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Manage it?
Why would I need to manage it?
for the last five questions the answer is: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
For the OP, nope. I'm home right where I am. It actaully makes for some confusing converstations. Like this one yesterday. A colleague asked me, "How are things at you home?" and I said just fine. It wasn't untill after her next three comments she was talking about the flooding in Iowa!!! I was talking about my house here.  |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| dixie wrote: |
| As for me, I couldn�t cope with the five year wait period before I was "free" to go off and teach elsewhere. Currently M�xico is home, and it likely will be for a very, very, long time. |
For dixie and anyone esle reading who might be interested. In Mexico, citizenship rights ascend as well as decend--you can get citizenship if you are the parent of a Mexican citizen. (of course there are details, like a fee and a recidency requirement). |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| For dixie and anyone esle reading who might be interested. In Mexico, citizenship rights ascend as well as decend--you can get citizenship if you are the parent of a Mexican citizen. (of course there are details, like a fee and a recidency requirement). |
Also doesn't Mexico have decent policies for retired people who want to live in Mexico?
The fact that you get citizenship if you have a kid in Mexico is great. In Taiwan this is a problem. You can be married in Taiwan with a kid and be thrown out if you get divorced. There is a five year permanent residence you could apply for if you have been living in Taiwan but it seems harsh to have lived a long time in Taiwan and because of divorce be thrown out. |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
Another option might be earning a lot of money. There are universities all over the world that pay well. Some people are shovelling it into their accounts pretty much hand over fist in some places in Asia.
With the right quals, there are places a TESOLer can make some dosh.
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As far as ESL is concerned, the tertiary sector isn't what it used to be. Yes there are still well paid jobs available but increasingly universities are creating 'English Centres', where ESL teachers rarely (if ever) get the same deal as other academic staff. And of course there is increasing competition for the dwindling decent contracts. Another thing to bear in mind is that in most countries university jobs (across the board) are surprisingly poorly paid.
If you're looking to maximise your long-term earnings potential your best bet is to focus on international schools (and by that I mean proper international schools) and/or government English programmes for state primary and secondary schools. In this sector there are more jobs and less competition. Go get your QTS sorted out if you want these jobs. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as ESL is concerned, the tertiary sector isn't what it used to be. |
Nothing on earth is truly what it used to be, is it? But there are still good things out there.
International schools have never really interested me; I'm primarily a language teacher, not a high school or elementary teacher. (I've done all three, and chose the one I like best!) I know this route appeals to some, but there's no reason to assume that the good jobs for English teachers are really disappearing. Getting scarcer in some areas, absolutely. Getting more competetive, in terms of experience and required quals, definitely, though I find this to be a good thing.
But there are a LOT of people out there who want to learn English. THere are ways to have a nice life while teaching it to them.
At the moment, I'm in a position that's 40% teacher training, 40% teaching, and 40% admin and course design. (I know, it doesn't add up- but it's true!) We're doing a lot of training of government agencies...it's okay. Similar earning to most international schools where I live, and more fun for me!
It pays for my Masters, helps establish my residency, and lets me plan for the future. Who could ask for more?
And in response to:
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| Another thing to bear in mind is that in most countries university jobs (across the board) are surprisingly poorly paid. |
Like most generalizations, this is both true and false. Compared to what?
In any case, though, one advantage, imo, of the EFL profession is that we can live easily in a variety of economies. If I go to Saudi for a year (for example) I might be "poorly paid" by local standards, but could still save $15000 in a year in many jobs. This $15000 would be an extremely substantial downpayment on a rental property in Ecuador...whether it was "poor pay" in Saudi or not would be irrelevant if I'm saving for a different, weaker economy.
Best,
Justin |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
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| Another thing to bear in mind is that in most countries university jobs (across the board) are surprisingly poorly paid. |
Like most generalizations, this is both true and false. Compared to what?
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Compared to other university jobs for one - as I said, ESL jobs tend to be worse paid than other university subjects. I'm not saying that you can't still find 'good' jobs at universities - but there are less of them than there used to be and competition for them is getting stiffer. Generally speaking!
But to be specific I'll give a couple of examples. In Italy, for example, most ESL university jobs will pay little more than 1000 euros a month - I'd say that is surprisingly bad for a relatively expensive EU country. University jobs are also surprisingly poorly paid in many other EU countries. In the UK, university jobs are a bad joke compared to 20 years ago. In Hong Kong I saw a university ESL lecturers' post advertised last weekend with salary ranging between 22,000 and 29,000 HK dollars per month. That is very poor for HK. Especially when you consider that most of your colleagues, teaching other subject areas, will be on twice as much, teaching less contact hours and getting quadruple the amount of holiday.
It's not my fault that these changes are taking place - I'm just trying to advise people that they would probably find international schools and government programmes generally more lucrative - or at least - that it is now easier to find well paid work in these sectors. For those who want to stay in tertiary work, yes there are still good jobs and you can still make a good living, but it's not as easy as it was.
And in defence of generalisations - they are generally necessary when making abbreviated - and general - comments on this board! We don't always have time for detailed postings. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
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The same distinction existed at my last job: "normal" subject instructors having fewer hours and presumably getting more pay. To add to the generalization, subject instructors are more likely to hold PhDs, whereas instructors in English departments can get hired with only a BA in some places or an MA. Often English classes are not credit-bearing and are not actually part of degree programs--less prestige, less weight, lower salary. Am I happy that instructors in other departments and programs get higher salaries and have fewer contact hours than me? Well, if they've got PhDs, they deserve better conditions. Good for them. What they do and what I do are very different jobs. I'm still pretty happy with the salary that I'm getting now.
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: Hard to Say |
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I have been away for 2 and a half years now and no end is in sight. So, maybe never. Living overseas has taught me some things and confirmed some others. Everyday brings something new though. A fresh reminder that life isn't quite as predictable as I thought.
I wanted something different and a bit closer to the edge, I got it. |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
Well, if they've got PhDs, they deserve better conditions. Good for them. What they do and what I do are very different jobs. I'm still pretty happy with the salary that I'm getting now.
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Fine. But let's say you (or anyone) decided to do a PhD in TESOL or linguistics, you may well find that you are still stuck in the university "English Centre", teaching - as you say - generic ESL, with no tenured upward track possible because you are outside of the mainstream university departments. Yes, there are tenured jobs out there eg. in university linguistics departments, but these jobs are comparatively low in number and subject to strong competition...etc etc. Hence my advice above, that it's easier - in terms of guaranteeing a higher income - to focus on international schools and government programmes - so long as you can stomach teaching primary or secondary level.
On the plus side, one of the good things about university ESL is that at least there are (compared to other subjects) plenty of jobs - it's relatively easy for us to pick and choose countries compared to, say, a biology or maths lecturer.
But this is all way off the OP, and partly my fault I realise. And talking of going home, here's a cautionary tale. I just met someone I know who "went home" to the UK a year ago has just come back to HK. He says he's glad to be back - the UK apparently was "a shock to the system", an "eye-opener" and much else besides. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Tough question. I mean, even if I were to go back to the U.S., I would 100% go to a new city I never lived before. So it is still keeping with moving on.
But at this point, I am in Japan, and I see myself here for the longterm. Like a lot of people, I could see China being in the future when and if the wages become competitive with their Japan and Korea counterparts.
Financially speaking, I don't see myself in other continents. I already spent a year in South America and a year in Europe. So got those out of my system.
Granted I just recently got to Japan, but I feel REALLY content here. This is a long-term kind of country. It isn't easy to get the 'travel' bug out of a person though. I actually would be interested in moving to a new state/city in the U.S. someday just for the challenge/interest of it, but not anytime soon! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, according to Thomas Wolfe, "You Can't Go Home Again." I guess it depends on how you define "home." I've been back in the USA for five years now, after spending over twenty years abroad. But when I returned, I didn't "go back home" to Boston, MA; I came instead to Santa Fe, New Mexico. I fell in love with the southwest about fifteen years ago; when I first visited here in 1993, I knew this was where I wanted to be. It was "home."
So, maybe you CAN go "home" again, but the home of your heart might be very different from the "home" where you were born and grew up.
Regards,
John |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Marcoregano wrote: |
| denise wrote: |
Well, if they've got PhDs, they deserve better conditions. Good for them. What they do and what I do are very different jobs. I'm still pretty happy with the salary that I'm getting now.
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Fine. But let's say you (or anyone) decided to do a PhD in TESOL or linguistics, you may well find that you are still stuck in the university "English Centre", teaching - as you say - generic ESL, with no tenured upward track possible because you are outside of the mainstream university departments. Yes, there are tenured jobs out there eg. in university linguistics departments, but these jobs are comparatively low in number and subject to strong competition...etc etc. Hence my advice above, that it's easier - in terms of guaranteeing a higher income - to focus on international schools and government programmes - so long as you can stomach teaching primary or secondary level.
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Yeah, I suppose we are getting off the topic here... The only reason I would (and briefly did) consider getting a PhD would be to teach TESOL or linguistics classes--certainly not to teach English language classes.
d |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
| Well, according to Thomas Wolfe, "You Can't Go Home Again." .... maybe you CAN go "home" again, but the home of your heart might be very different from the "home" where you were born and grew up. |
Tks John. I wasn't quite sure what Wolfe meant, so I looked it up. This (below) is taken from Susan J Matt's, "You Can't Go Home Again: Homesickness and Nostalgia in U.S. History."
'"At the end of Thomas Wolfe's novel You Can't Go Home Again, the protagonist, George Webber, realized, "You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood, ... back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame ... back home to places in the country, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time�back home to the escapes of Time and Memory."
The idea that it is impossible to return home and to the past is commonplace today and a hallmark of modern consciousness. Yet generations of Americans have longed to go home, either to their actual childhood homes or to metaphorical homes located somewhere in the past.' Susan J Matt.
But as you suggest, maybe we can find a new "home" to go to. Important also to distinguish between 'homesickness' and 'nostalgia'. Here's Ms Matt again:
'Today, homesickness is defined as the longing for a particular home, nostalgia as a longing for a lost time. Nostalgia may carry within it a yearning for home, but it is a home faraway in time rather than space.'
Given these definitions I think nostalgia is what gets me from time to time, more than homesickness and not sure I'll ever escape it completely - and nor do I want to, as it is closely linked with my own sense of self. |
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