Job Discussion Forums

[MELEE]

Anyone who's been reading the Mexico forum over the last six months, knows that there is some sort of cultural difference between Jetgirly and her Mexican students and colleagues. I completely agree with her own statements that she was not adequately prepared for the situation she ended up in. But I do not agree that the situation is an atrocity.

[wildchild]

I don't manipulate grades: I just give them all A.

after all, I don't give homework or tests; not because I don't believe in them but because I don't really care for the paperwork.

[johnslat]

If Mexico seems tough, try India:

"Not only is cheating endemic, it is completely brazen. I recently met a �graduate� of Bundelkhand University, located in southern UP, who matter-of-factly reported that he had cheated his way to a full law degree, and that no one had tried to, or would, stop him. Why? Because UP�s students are armed to the hilt. This particular student leader had two registered, licensed guns and about eight illegally owned weapons.


What�s merit got to do with it?

The vehemence with which students and politicians defend cheating is nauseating. But although we might wish to simply dismiss these disquieting attacks on merit, the rationale behind the defense of cheating is sadly reasonable. We might wish it to be otherwise, but when the Chief Minister of UP said that the anti-cheating law discriminated against students with inadequate preparation, he did not invent the argument. Indian students in Bihar, voicing their support for cheating, note that it is not fair to expect students to pass exams if teachers do not show up at schools to teach. And they have a point. Teacher absenteeism in India is atrociously high; worse still, even when teachers are in school, they are infrequently found to be teaching. The question is straightforwardly put: how can a student who has gone to a school where a teacher was rarely in class, and where the teacher-pupil ratio was sometimes more than 1:100, and where there were rarely books, be expected to pass an
exam?"

http://www.newvisioninstitute.org/foresight/index.php/2007/04/05/other-backward-classrooms-whats-merit-got-to-do-with-it/

Regards,
John

[tvik]

it would seem a bit dumb to be the only teacher in the whole school that refuses to allow cheating/bumping grades.

no "real" university or employer takes those places seriously anyways. people generally know what the game is in their own countries.

[johnslat]

Dear tvik,
Dumb? I don't think that's how I'd describe it. In logic, I believe that's called the bandwagon fallacy: Because everyone else is doing something wrong, then it's OK for me to do it. It's the justification some people use for cheating on their income taxes, for bilking insurance companies, for stealing from their employers, etc. Crooked cops use it to rationalize their corruption.

If a person thinks something is wrong, then, especially is it seems that lots of others are doing it, refraining from following their example isn't what I'd call dumb; I'd call it integrity.
Regards,
John

[arioch36]

John

[denise]

I see cultural differences in begging for marks. I had a few students in Peru who would do it (with some semblance of dignity), none that I recall in Japan or the Czech Republic, and loads here in Oman. I am still just astounded--in my past experiences, students who got bad grades might have been disappointed, but they wouldn't badger the teachers the way they do here. I think I've done a pretty good job of standing up to them ("But... it sounds like you think I should change your grade! That's not honest! " "No, teacher, no change, just... just help!" "Your grade is honest. That does help you."), but the administration can just change them on their own without the teachers' consent.

d

[Kootvela]

[Stephen Jones]

The matter is not as clear as it appears. If there is a legally fixed pass mark, then manipulating marks en bloc to ensure consistency is perfectly reasonable.

[gaijinalways]

denise posted

[nickpellatt]

I have recently finished oral exams for around 350 students, and whilst I dont think I have made a deliberate effort to ensure a pass mark, my grading is influenced by a number of factors, which can make grades higher or lower than they should be. My exams are all oral, and by their very nature difficult to mark consistently as there are so many of them.

Students who make mistakes, small errors in exams, but have been consistent in attendance, effort and well behaved tend to be favoured and graded accordingly. The problem with this of course, is its easy to be influenced by students you like....its a bit too personal then.

Thankfully, my only failures have been people who really deserved to fail, perhaps only 3 or 4 out of all my classes were borderline, and those remained failures, and will have to pay to resit exams.

The difficult thing, and I do appreciate earlier comments about integrity, is that professional integrity, is perhaps culture specific, and this sometimes clashes with personal beliefs....and it can be costly.

I am one of the two least experienced, and least qualified members of the teaching staff at my school., and in the exams I have set in previous terms, I have been happy to fail students that lacked ability or effort. At the start of the new school year, I took all the new freshman students, and one of the more experienced teachers took my old classes. One year on from my first exams with these classes, failing an average of 8 per class of 30, she has set easier exams than I did 12 months ago...and passed everyone regardless of ability. (and some of them have made no improvment)

The difficulty here, is the school will openly say to me, that the other teacher has done a good job, and is obviously more experienced and skilled, as all the students I graded 50%, have improved to be 80% students under her tuition.

I have also had issues with other Chinese teachers complaining on behalf of the student to the school about some of my grades first term this year. Some good students failed first term, despite ability, simply because they didnt complete the task as required, answer the question, and do what they were asked. My Chinese colleagues would not accept that as a failing grade. Anyone who has judged Chinese students English speech contests may recognise this.

Judge asking student "What do you think of the environmental impact of holding the Olympics in Beijing?"

Student - looks confused. "I am very proud to see China hold the Olympics, One world one dream, I would like to volunteer to work in Beijing and help the Foreigners..blah blah balh.."

English judge - ZERO, didnt answer question

Chinese Judge - Full marks, had good pronunciation

Anyway....Im waffling...far too much....Now, I think I am in two minds about how fair my grades need to be. I think it depends where you are...I really do