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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Samantha wrote: |
| Sorry Johnny, but if down and out burglars here in Mexico could afford these steaks they would be eating them and not using them to poison dogs. |
Down and out? That is pretty naive. Many criminals make more $$$ stealing than legit people make working 8 or more honest hours in a day. Open up a newspaper in Mexico and look at the job ads. There seems to be a lot of them to me... But people don't want to work a legit job and pay tax, they would rather work in the informal economy or become criminals.
BTW the easiest way to poison an animal is by giving it some anti-freeze. It tastes very sweet and it kills. If you have pets and/or kids don't leave that stuff laying around, just a little bit spilt on the ground and then consumed can be deadly. |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Luckily most people in this part of Mexico are very un-dog-savvy.
Most people are too afraid to get close enough to my larger dog to realize that she's just as afraid of them.
We have to be careful with the smaller one, she'd open the door for anybody, so the door latch has to be above the height she can reach. |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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PG wrote:
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| Down and out? That is pretty naive. Many criminals make more $$$ stealing than legit people make working 8 or more honest hours in a day. |
I am no stranger to the workings of crime and criminals, given a previous career as an emergency call-taker and police dispatcher, amongst other duties, and naive I'm not. There is no welfare system here, so whether you like to admit it or not, there are many thefts out of pure desperation.
Anyone hanging clothes out to dry in the lovely Mexican sunshine knows there is a certain risk that said clothes may not be there when you go to collect them. Can't imagine used clothes making anyone a bundle on the black market. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Samantha wrote: |
PG wrote:
| Quote: |
| Down and out? That is pretty naive. Many criminals make more $$$ stealing than legit people make working 8 or more honest hours in a day. |
I am no stranger to the workings of crime and criminals, given a previous career as an emergency call-taker and police dispatcher, amongst other duties, and naive I'm not. There is no welfare system here, so whether you like to admit it or not, there are many thefts out of pure desperation.
Anyone hanging clothes out to dry in the lovely Mexican sunshine knows there is a certain risk that said clothes may not be there when you go to collect them. Can't imagine used clothes making anyone a bundle on the black market. |
I stand by my original statement. Just because people have opportunities for legit work and a decent life doesn't mean they will choose a honest life. Look at the USA. We have one of the best standards of living in the world, some of the best schools in the world, good paying jobs etc. Does this mean we have a low crime rate? No, we have one of the highest crime rates in the world.
In the US 70% of burglers are amateurs, but 30% are pros. What's the difference? An amateur might only take half your valuables in twice the time, a pro will grab most of your good stuff in a matter of minutes...
A friend of mine had a break-in on a holiday. They grabbed about $3,000 worth of stuff. Think about that... A months salary for many people in a matter of minutes.
If someone breaks in to your place and grabs only a few things, they will make more than most people do in a week in a legit job.
What about pick pockets? It's an easy crime, hard to get caught and the pay-off is good... If you grab 10 wallets a day and they have an average of $500 pesos...that's 5,000 pesos in a day. About a months salary for the average Mexican.
BTW nobody has ever stolen my clothes off the line while drying, maybe that's because I don't live in a poor neighborhood, than again I don't really care to get that close to the real Mexico 
Oh yeah, I worked in security and most of the people we caught were not poor. Drug addicts perhaps, but they were criminals by choice to support their addiction. In loss prevention the majority of the people caught seem to be middle class folks.
There is no welfare system here because the US is the welfare system. Now the rich and the politicos are in a real panic about the US finally securing it's border with Mexico. There goes the safety release valve for the poor and downtrodden. People who have never thought of trying to make a living here in Mexico or improving their own country now have some tough choices to make. The pressure should (hopefully) bring about some substantial changes in society and the class system. |
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lozwich
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
We have one of the best standards of living in the world, some of the best schools in the world, good paying jobs etc. Does this mean we have a low crime rate? No, we have one of the highest crime rates in the world.
[snip]
Oh yeah, I worked in security and most of the people we caught were not poor. Drug addicts perhaps, but they were criminals by choice to support their addiction. |
I think this is a really simplistic view of things. Do the burglars you talk about have access to these schools, which lead to high paying jobs? Not often, I don't think. Problems of poverty and their consequences can't be explained away by simply having good schools etc in the same (huge) country if poor people have no access to them. |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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No welfare system????
Prof. I think you need to get a little bit closer to the real Mexico before you make that kind of statement.
BTW--I've never had clothes stollen off my line either. My husband was pickpocketed in Mexico city--but he's soooo not city savvy. And I had my watch stolen in a crowd in Puebla, that's all. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| lozwich wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
We have one of the best standards of living in the world, some of the best schools in the world, good paying jobs etc. Does this mean we have a low crime rate? No, we have one of the highest crime rates in the world.
[snip]
Oh yeah, I worked in security and most of the people we caught were not poor. Drug addicts perhaps, but they were criminals by choice to support their addiction. |
I think this is a really simplistic view of things. Do the burglars you talk about have access to these schools, which lead to high paying jobs? Not often, I don't think. Problems of poverty and their consequences can't be explained away by simply having good schools etc in the same (huge) country if poor people have no access to them. |
No, that's a very simplistic view of things. If people are motivated and want to do something with their lives they can find a way. It may not be easy, but it can be done. Plenty of poor people, minorities,people with disabilities etc grow up and become honest hard-working people.
People choose the easy route, making their choices for themselves. Of course people are influenced by many factors, but in the end we each make our own choices. I prefer hard work and to make an honest living. Others prefer easy money and they will break the laws of society.
You said that people have no access to education and opportunities. In the US? Give me a break. Free schools up to high school. Bi-lingual education and free ESL classes. Pell grants, Stafford loans, as well as community colleges offer people a way to make it through college. Public Vo/Tech schools are often very cheap or free.
Have you ever heard of Job Corps? It's a residential youth training program started by LBJ's great society. Today there are Job Corps training centers all over the US, including Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. It's for young, dis-advantaged people from 16-24. No HS diploma or GED? No problem, you can get one at Job Corps, along with career training in good paying, high demand jobs, receive health care, 3 meals a day, and get paid to be there. Students live and study on campus for up to 2 years.
I could go on and on about the opportunities given to people in the US. If a person can go to the US without any papers, friends, family or even English language ability and still make a good living and save money, there is NO reason why Americans can't do the same. If they don't it's because they won't, not because they can't.
In Mexico those opportunities are more limited, but they still exist to some degree. It all depends on how much a person wants and is willing to try and make something of their life. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MELEE wrote: |
No welfare system????
Prof. I think you need to get a little bit closer to the real Mexico before you make that kind of statement.
BTW--I've never had clothes stollen off my line either. My husband was pickpocketed in Mexico city--but he's soooo not city savvy. And I had my watch stolen in a crowd in Puebla, that's all. |
Mexico has a welfare system? What the IMSS? Also, I like living in my part of the real Mexico. Fresa it may be, but I prefer safety to living in a barrio pobre. |
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Oreen Scott
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 179
Location: Oaxaca, Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Loswich wrote, " I think this is a really simplistic view of things."
I couldn't agree more.
Life is more than just choice. It's also happenstance. Some people are fortunate because of where they were born. Some people are fortunate because their brain works very well. Some people are fortunate because they are physically strong and in good health. Some people are just plain unfortunate. Some people get angry at the world that gave them a bum deal and they act out by robbing etc. Everyone has a story. Each story is different. We ought not to make simplistic statements when it comes to people because each person is unique.
Over simplification and high mindedness are dangerous, does no good and indeed harms the society in which we are all a part. |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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There is a wide variety of government programs that would classify as "welfare" in Mexico--Mexico has a socialist consitution after all. I wasn't thinking of IMSS, since we pay into that. I was thinking more about Oportunidades, Seguro popular, and a varity of agrarian susidies for campisinos.
As for fresa/bario pobre it doesn't have to be either or--I think I've seen a very well rounded view of the coutry and especially of the different variables in the south, from the uber rich to the extreme poor. |
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Gary Denness
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that we should just see the obvious here, and that is that crime can happen to anyone, at anytime. How and why it happens is for debate. |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| If a doctor prescribes you something, check online before taking it! I was prescribed something that is banned in Canada, the US and the UK. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jetgirly wrote: |
| If a doctor prescribes you something, check online before taking it! I was prescribed something that is banned in Canada, the US and the UK. |
Nice! |
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