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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not necessarily whether degrees and qualifications make the teacher - one important point is that having them is often the only thing that can get you to the first step: interesting a DOS in your aplication. |
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FuzzX
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I've worked in Brazil, Japan, Mexico and Korea with no degree. Don't need one and never plan to get one. |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| FuzzX wrote: |
| I've worked in Brazil, Japan, Mexico and Korea with no degree. Don't need one and never plan to get one. |
Let's hope they pass a law on work visas requiring a degree. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Kootvela,
The problem is, what do you do with people who have gained years of experience without such a degree?
Also, work visas are one thing, but there are other visa types that permit people to work without degrees. Immigration guidelines on work permission cover one side of the fence, and it may be up to employers or a labor board within the country to dictate degree requirements. As we say in Japan, it's all case by case. |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Kootvela,
The problem is, what do you do with people who have gained years of experience without such a degree?
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Rehabilitate  |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Kootvela wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
That being said, some of the best teachers I've worked with had no degree and some of the worst were qualified to the gills.
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Sigh. Not that same old story again.
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Totally agree. |
MOD EDIT I have been teaching for nearly a decade, and done so in five countries. During that time, I have seen wonderful teachers who didn't have degrees and some terrible, pedantic teachers with DELTAS and Master's degrees. It happens.
If you had read the rest of my post, you would've seen that I recommended the OP get his/her degree anyway.
Degrees are great--I'm certainly glad I have mine--but do not determine whether or not one becomes an effective teacher. |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Glenski wrote:
Kootvela,
The problem is, what do you do with people who have gained years of experience without such a degree?
Rehabilitate |
Employ them if you can ?
basil |
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enter6382
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I can understand why you would need a degree if you were looking to make good money doing this. Honestly I don't know of I'm going back to school, because I'm making a good living now and I'm not looking to get rich. But I've always wanted to try this. I would even do it if I was barely getting by. Is it possible, where could I work, what certification would be best, and what are the actual chances of making it? I know some of you have said that there are people with no degree doing it. But I imagine that getting in with no degree ten years ago and getting in now are two entirely different things. Does anyone know someone who has done it recently? I appreciate all your posts and your time.
Thanks |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| enter6382 wrote: |
I can understand why you would need a degree if you were looking to make good money doing this. Honestly I don't know of I'm going back to school, because I'm making a good living now and I'm not looking to get rich. But I've always wanted to try this. I would even do it if I was barely getting by. Is it possible, where could I work, what certification would be best, and what are the actual chances of making it? I know some of you have said that there are people with no degree doing it. But I imagine that getting in with no degree ten years ago and getting in now are two entirely different things. Does anyone know someone who has done it recently? I appreciate all your posts and your time.
Thanks |
Sorry, I didn't understand the red sentence. Are you asking what kind of TESOL certification would be best for people without a degree, or are those several questions?
Lots of people without degrees are teaching English now. They tend to be in China and other countries where the rate of pay is pretty good by local standards, but not all that competitive by international (and this really means our home countries' standards).
If you're only planning on doing this for a couple of years, then maybe it doesn't matter to you how much you can save for those years. Or if you're planning on living in a country with a cost of living like in China for the rest of your career, then that's great. But, if you are in it for a career and need to save for retirement etc, then you really need to be serious about qualifications, and that begins with having a degree so that you can work in a country that pays well enough to save a considerable amount of money. |
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enter6382
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Yes it's several questions. I was just being lazy with my typing. |
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parrothead
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 342
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Young man, there's no reason to think that finishing school means that you have to be stuck anywhere for good. Getting your degree could be the key to getting unstuck from wherever you find yourself and setting out to see the wide world while teaching English! |
I couldn't agree more. One or two years of university is a drop in the ocean of life. Sure, not everyone needs a degree, and leaving school with any kind of debt is no fun, but once you have your degree a gazillion other doors open up to you. Aside from the degree, college presents a myriad of other opportunities and experiences. Beef up your CV with them.
But it sounds like you've pretty much got your heart set on going. If your feet are itchy and you are just looking for a year or two:
*Some schools in China will hire you without a university degree.
*Some schools in Japan will hire you on a working holiday basis (if you are Canadian) without the degree or the certificate. Otherwise, I don't think you will get a job in Japan without a university degree.
*You could probably find a job in Indonesia without a BA, but you wouldn't be improving the image of the average Indo EFL instructor any.
*It is possible, just barely, to get a job in Thailand without a degree.
*It is unlikely that you would be able to get a job (working legally) in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Korea without a university degree.
| Quote: |
| I've worked in Brazil, Japan, Mexico and Korea with no degree. Don't need one and never plan to get one. |
Perhaps FuzzX can explain how he was able to teach in each of these places.
*You could probably secure a job in Latin America without a BA, but I doubt you would be able to secure a legal work visa. A lot of instructors are able to line up privates in LA through various institutes, but they don't always have legal working papers.
*Are you British? ("Montana" on your avatar says you are probably not) Perhaps you can find work in the EU with an EU passport. (A 20 year old, unqualified, undergraduate N. American isn't going to find a job in the EU, however.) |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: |
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MOD EDIT
| Quote: |
| If you had read the rest of my post, you would've seen that I recommended the OP get his/her degree anyway. |
Yes, I read it. Thanks for putting that in. But you seem to negate yourself with statements like the one below:
Degrees are great--I'm certainly glad I have mine--but do not determine whether or not one becomes an effective teacher. ... so I am not sure how to take your remark about "pomposity". I mean, you and I have both been teaching for 10 years, and I, too, have seen good teachers with little or no training, and horrible teachers WITH degrees and training.
Bottom line is, as always comes up with this topic, there are always exceptions to the rule, and odds favor that one will be more prepared with a degree than without. Moreover, there are concerns about having a degree as far as the employer and immigration is concerned, so unless someone absolutely cannot get a degree (or the experience needed to sway immigration, as is possible in Japan), then people have little right to complain about the situation. I have friends with no training in being carpenters or architects, yet they get freelance work in their towns, and get paid in beer (or beer money). Not a great way to keep the carpentry market looking good, is it? Take it from there with teaching. |
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sweeney66
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| I'll say it again. A degree is not required to work in Mexico, provided you have a CELTA or other ligit cert. I am in the process of formalizing my degree equivalent studies in order to have better employment options, and, hell, just out of curiosity and a desire to learn to do what I do better. It's all a process, being a more engaged learner and more engaged teacher. Shucks, I might even go in for a Masters, why not? Its interesting. A degree w/out experience will not make you qualified, and experience w/out a degree will not make you look qualified. There ya go. Try Mexico. I can relate to being 20 and wanting a break from uni to experience the real world, the idea behind certification is to take care that you are capable of being responsible to your students and giving them the quality education that they have paid their hard-earned money for. Again, it's just a start, and if you like it you will want further quals. But, sure, take a chance, best of luck to you! |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| enter6382 wrote: |
I can understand why you would need a degree if you were looking to make good money doing this. Honestly I don't know of I'm going back to school, because I'm making a good living now and I'm not looking to get rich. But I've always wanted to try this. I would even do it if I was barely getting by. Is it possible, where could I work, what certification would be best, and what are the actual chances of making it? I know some of you have said that there are people with no degree doing it. But I imagine that getting in with no degree ten years ago and getting in now are two entirely different things. Does anyone know someone who has done it recently? I appreciate all your posts and your time.
Thanks |
Sorry, I didn't understand the red sentence. Are you asking what kind of TESOL certification would be best for people without a degree, or are those several questions?
Lots of people without degrees are teaching English now. They tend to be in China and other countries where the rate of pay is pretty good by local standards, but not all that competitive by international (and this really means our home countries' standards).
If you're only planning on doing this for a couple of years, then maybe it doesn't matter to you how much you can save for those years. Or if you're planning on living in a country with a cost of living like in China for the rest of your career, then that's great. But, if you are in it for a career and need to save for retirement etc, then you really need to be serious about qualifications, and that begins with having a degree so that you can work in a country that pays well enough to save a considerable amount of money. |
Is it possible?
Yeah, just don't expect to save any money.
where could I work?
China, some countries in SE Asia, South America, maybe Mexico
what certification would be best?
A degree is the best thing. Schools that will hire someone without a degree or experience may not be too too picky about which certificate you get. CELTA has good recognition, though (you'd have to check whether or not you can do one without a degree in your area! Most of the better certificates- including pretty much all of the university ones will require an undergraduate degree as a prereq).
what are the actual chances of making it?
Not too bad, really. If you do a search you can find tonnes of people without degrees. Personality, professionalism and being in the right place at the right time counts for a lot. Often that involves taking what could be a pretty expensive risk, though. It may mean showing up in a country that has a high probability of hiring you without a degree (obviously the more money you bring with you the better), and start from there. There is a China job board here. I think you can find ads for jobs in thailand pretty frequently, too.
Then again, nothing in life is ever guaranteed. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Unless you entered college early or got only a 2-year degree, how does the average person get a bachelor's degree at 20? |
I did, I had just turned 20 when I got my BA. It-s not that hard, finishing HS early, CLEP tests, summer school, and overloading on courses made it possible.
By the way I had a double major, a minor and still managed to study at a sister school in CA, abroad in Spain and do two internships at the Smithsonian in Washington. All that in 3.5 years. |
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