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FAQ: Choosing a teaching job in China
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In China I have taught more in:

Public Schools (K-12, higher education)

46%

[ 15 ]

Private Schools (English training centers)

53%

[ 17 ]

Total Votes : 32

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vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject:

Melillly - when another poster has opinions that you don't agree with, a good repost would be to focus on certain points and discuss further.
A reply that starts with -

Quote:

This kind of reply sounds like a lot of negative BS to me. Hey man, wake up and smell the coffee! We're teachers, not celebrities. We teach English classes to Chinese students and we get paid for it.

- and then goes onto to question the experience of other posters, tells us nothing very concrete about the art of freelancing - and doesn't seem to give the prospective newbie any objective insights into this line of work.
So here are few more points why the newbie should be beware of if they're thinking of freelancing -

1 - As Arioch points out its illegal - legal work permission only covers that employer shown on your papers.

2 - Since you're illegal it can be difficult to openly advertise your services.

3 - To generate business you may have to go round knocking doors (schools, offices companies etc, etc) so being fluent in Chinese - or at least having a local partner who can tackle this side of the business - is a huge advantage.

4 - You have to be careful how you bank your money - because if you do get caught, and through further investigation, the tax office gets to see from your bank account that you haven't been declaring all your earnings, or if you solely depend on freelancing, you've been banking more than 4,800/month - well you have a new problem.

5 - just be careful you don't make any enemies with folk who know the ins and outs of your "business" - its has been know for these folk to threaten to shop the poor old freelancer!!!!

And how do I know this - my 5 years of China experience, where a lot of time has been spent being closely involved with freelancing Idea

GeminiTiger

Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject:

gypsy woman wrote:

"Party B may not accept any employment or engage in any other occupation while under contract to Party A without Party A�s permission. Any violation of this regulation will result in a RMB500yuan � RMB1,500yuan fine. If there were serious negative effects, Party A would has the right to terminate the contract."

I have never seen THIS language in the 100+ contracts I have read. The first sentance "Party B may not accept any employment or engage in any other occupation while under contract to Party A without Party A�s permission." is normal, but the rest of the contract language is nonsense.

Here are some facts, illuminated by Vikuk worth reiterating. Freelance and side work is technically illegal. However, just about everyone does it. It is usually OK until someone feels it is a business threat. I have seen a foreigner warned of deportation for working at the 'wrong school' when the school across town reported that teacher because they did not have the right to hire foreigners as that school did.

Nobody should ever bother you working privately or working in your own home. Just be careful who do work for.

Most Universities I've worked for constantly call me to take part time jobs for other schools, events and private teaching.

melilly

Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 44

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

And how do I know this - my 5 years of China experience, where a lot of time has been spent being closely involved with freelancing

The information in this reply is inaccurate. Most of it is either a gross exaggeration or simply not true.

Let me take your points again, this time respectfully:

Quote:

1 - As Arioch points out its illegal - legal work permission only covers that employer shown on your papers.

There are many teahers who teach on tourist and business visas in China, teachers without degrees, teachers who do freelance jobs and privates and get paid in cash, and it's all considered illegal.

Quote:

2 - Since you're illegal it can be difficult to openly advertise your services.

China is a big country and there are many different cities where EFL teachers are working. What's true in one city might not be true in another. It's not difficult to do get the word out that you're looking for some extra income. There are legit companies hiring teachers in the city I live and I've heard of no one getting in trouble, paying fines, or being deported for freelancing.

Quote:

3 - To generate business you may have to go round knocking doors (schools, offices companies etc, etc) so being fluent in Chinese - or at least having a local partner who can tackle this side of the business - is a huge advantage.

You don't have to knock on doors in the Internet age. There are many online ads on expat community websites seeking native English speakers to teach English here, in the city where I live. It's easy to find jobs, depending on your schedule and how far you want to commute, etc.

Quote:

4 - You have to be careful how you bank your money - because if you do get caught, and through further investigation, the tax office gets to see from your bank account that you haven't been declaring all your earnings, or if you solely depend on freelancing, you've been banking more than 4,800/month - well you have a new problem.

This is an exageration of the truth. I have a bank account for my main job, and at my side job at a local college, located on the campus of a major university, I'm paid cash monthly. There is a tax law about making less than a certain amount, maybe it's 4,000 rmb, and if you make less than this each month I'm told it's not a problem. In any event, I know many teachers in my city who have second jobs, side jobs, private students, and I haven't heard of anyone getting into trouble for this. One teacher I know has 2 bank accounts, one for his main uni job, which provides him with a Z visa, and one for his side job.

I believe, respectfully, that giving warnings to so-called newbies (I personally believe this is a degrading and derogatory term) about some of the bad or negative aspects of doing freelance teaching without the good or positive sides, and then saying you're closely involved with freelancing, is talking out of both sides of the mouth.

But that's just me. Going into my 8th year of teaching EFL now, posting my experinces and opinions here for the sole purpose of aiding, assisting, supporting, defending, and protecting EFL teachers from what I consider to be inaccurate information and bad advice.

Yeah, that's it, I'm an EFL super hero in my own mind. Flame on! Laughing

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:28 am Post subject:

Quote:

I believe, respectfully, that giving warnings to so-called newbies (I personally believe this is a degrading and derogatory term) about some of the bad or negative aspects of doing freelance teaching without the good or positive sides, and then saying you're closely involved with freelancing, is talking out of both sides of the mouth.

Melilly's post - in which he or she tells us about the ways they circumnavigate the very real factors involved with taking on illegal work in China - rather emphasise the points I made in my earlier post. I'm glad this poster has also been given the chance to warn the wannabe freelancer of possible pitfalls!!!!

To understand how I view freelancing - think of it as driving in car without a seatbelt. If you're an experienced cautious and good driver then, unless you're unlucky and are the victim of an another's bad motoring - you have a good chance of coming out unscathed. But being allowed to travel in that car without being warned about the dangers of not buckling-up - well that's just plain foolish Idea

Last edited by vikuk on Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:02 am; edited 2 times in total

TangWolun

Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:55 am Post subject:

vikuk wrote:

Quote:

Chinese people are so keen and eager to be friendly and warm to you when you have children.

Many FT's here could tell you how that can "friendliness" start to become a rather lothesome situation for some children - the constant stares, pointing fingers, direct physical approaches. Make sure all that warm and friendly doesn't turn your kid into an petting-animal for the masses!!!!!!

Good points vikuk. I have had the experience on 3 separate occassions now with young kids from 2 different marriages. If that sort of thing does happen, that is, ..... the constant stares, pointing of fingers, the direct physical approaches.... I think that some assertive type suggestions in the local language or mandarin can quite quickly modify the undesirable behaviours.

It does happen and let me tell you my first experience of this was in 1992.
....................probably a lot worse then than today!! BUT there are also all the good things that you dont mention at all - the consideration shown, the priceless, nice friendly smiles, the opportunities that open up to engage in warm, genuine and friendly relations. (I can hear the 'flamers' and 'nego-China-bashing-Sinofiles' having a field day with that last statement. but if you dont cope here, get your life back and go back home!)

Cheers
TangWolun
汤沃伦先生我应该给你们我的印象。

melilly

Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:03 am Post subject:

Quote:

What can I say?

MOD EDIT

I'm beginning to like this spirit of cooperation!

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:37 am Post subject:

Melilly writes -

Quote:

But that's just me. Going into my 8th year of teaching EFL now, posting my experinces and opinions here for the sole purpose of aiding, assisting, supporting, defending, and protecting EFL teachers from what I consider to be inaccurate information and bad advice.

thanks Melilly - its good to see that experienced China teachers can give relevant info to those thinking of coming to China to teach EFL.
And on the subject of China experience - in your first post in this thread you write -

Quote:

I worked long hours for a year to get here, but well worth it.

- so how many of your 8 years EFL experience have taken place as a freelancer in China?
This isn't a flame - but a comment, which being very relevant to choosing a job in China, tries to focus on another point - the extra stresses associated with freelancing can make this a difficult long-term line of work, that often seem to put the freelancer in a vulnerable position - especially when there are no long-term professional benefits, and the wages in this sector, at best, seem to be stagnant.

melilly

Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 44

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject:

Quote:

- so how many of your 8 years EFL experience have taken place as a freelancer in China?

Not many, about a year's worth, two terms in a part-time college course, a few privates with a company that sets up mainly one-on-one's, and two oral English classes through an educational consulting company that caters to corporate clients. I do/have done these classes on the side while teaching full-time at a language school.

I freelance part-time. When I start my new uni job in September I'll continue to freelance by teaching these kinds of pre-arranged privates and corporate classes. I can pick and choose the classes I want, with times and travel options that fit my schedule and give me plenty of flexibility. Part-time freelancing is pretty stress free, at least for me.

As I've already replied, the pay, at least to me, is/has been very good, right now I'm making 200/rmb/hour. There are jobs and educational companies here paying up to 400/rmb/hour, depending on who you talk to and the level of experience required.

As my first post stated, I prefer the stability and security of a uni job while doing freelance teaching on the side for the extra income. I only know one person here who freelances full-time, and while I wouldn't want his schedule, he seems to like it.

I hope this answers your question.

Quote:

And how do I know this - my 5 years of China experience, where a lot of time has been spent being closely involved with freelancing

So does this mean you've done some illegal teaching in China?

This isn't a flame - but a comment, which focuses on the point of whether there's any difference between legal and illegal freelancing. I think since this seemed to be the biggest concern for newcomers, there may be others here who would benefit from knowing how to freelance without breaking the law.

vikuk

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

I'm afraid all the freelancing I've ever done, just like every example of this work, has been totally illegal - but then again this year with all the checks and visa difficulties (I wonder when they'll end) I've been lucky enough to be able to stop this line of business and earn a wage through other outlets

GeminiTiger

Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject:

I should have bumped this a couple months ago. I think the information is still useful for new members.

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