Job Discussion Forums

[A'Moo]

MOD EDIT
Also, with your qual's, dont take a job fo 4000 a month, those jobs are for ex-cons with limited English abilities. If you take a job for that amount, you will regret it...

[Anda]

These days China is doing a lot of business in places like Africa so I suppose that they see nothing wrong with having English taught by people from the countries that they trade with. English is an international language as such is no longer just the language of whites. I was surprised to hear that a local government teachers college has only about a quarter of their foreign English teachers from Western countries.


I think more and more Western English teachers will get replaced by English speakers from China's other trading countries if they expect much more than 4,500 RMB a month for 16 hour working weeks.


I work in the public school system and the top pay rate for a standard 16 hour working week is 5,000. You are wasting your time arguing for a higher wage as it is fixed but conditions are not.

[bradlarsen]

[
My question is should I give up now on pursuing EFL teaching work and residence in China, or anywhere else in Asia for that matter due to my lack of a University degree?

Answer:....NO!!

I have taught all over China with a 4day Tesol certificate, never been questioned, and even had the chief of police, magistrate, and other high up government officials aware of this. They even questioned my visitors visa, but the magistrate told the Chief of police to back off! True story.

Just go there and do it!

[Tsuris]

To the OP: The majority of foreigners currently teaching in China do not have a degree nor had they ever taught before moving to China. The fact that you have an associate's degree means you are more qualified than probably 50% of the people who are already here working as oral English teachers.

Now, with that said, you're not going to get a job at a first tier university teaching Western literature to master's degree students. Most private English language schools will accept you and quite a few universities will probably consider you in the absence of someone who is more qualified. Depending on what you are looking for, I'd consider applying to private English language training centers in the three big international cities. You might find something you really like.

If you want some definitive information about what the real requirements are for teaching in China, check out Teaching Qualifications in Practice.

Best of luck.

[arioch36]

In henan, I don't know of any uni or colleges that want people without degrees. if you do get a job without a 4 yr degree, you will be considered the bottom of the barrel, and get the worse conditions. I know of a couple Canadians that have a kind of 3 year degree that has been acceptable (A Canadian would know more) On the other hand here in henan, I have never seen such a shortage of FTs. It's not huge, but its the biggest I've seen at this time of the year

Brad

[Tsuris]

[arioch36]

Mostly agree. the biggest frustration is that many schools just aren't interested in better teachers if it means they must pay more. Most schools will offer raises for staying additional years.

A key frustration of "good recruiters" is that they will tell the school who is "good" and the school often will totally ignore the recruiter and pick some idiot.
I have been in henan most likely longer then any other poster, Been to many schools, know many FAO's. I will say with no equivocation ... the young girls who work in the FAO will be scolded for forwarding an application of somone with no degree or just a two year degree, by their superior, and by the Henan waishiban. It is a loss of face to the uni to have teachers with no degree, a sign how desparate they are, how pathetic they must be if they must hire such teachers, and is very uncommon (this year their is a shortage of teachers compared to other years) I say this for Henan, and I self-state that i have comparatively excellent knowledge of this situation .. for colleges and unis. few willingly hire a FT with no 4 year degree (or Canadian 3 year degree)

Phds and MAs shouldn't expect to get much more, they do consider a laowai just a laowai. Actually not quite true. I have found the waishiban to operate in three year cycles. But rarely (never) have I seen a Phd laowai be treated any different/better then a 22 y/o backpacker

Hire crap teachers, give crap condition, and now the FT's are crap again, can't speak english, 21 y/0s with dreadlocks. Lots of complaints. the true waishiban (most laowai never meet, a party member is scolded (serious in China, a face thing) reams out the FAO workers, they hire better teachers, treat them better. All is a little well, so the second year the good teachers get treated less well, because the FAO workers feel they don't need to bother. By the third year, the FAO and their hirings suck again. 4th year crap teachers appear again, etc.

my three jiao

[Moon Over Parma]

A colleague is working at my university without a degree. She was only given the job because she's a woman. I wouldn't have guessed unless the FT told me herself. The school wanted a female teacher since the majority of us possess a proverbial "third leg." She has previous China-based teaching experience, though, and seems to take her job with a degree of responsibility. Not a newbie. She also has to work longer hours than us, travel to a distant campus and is making considerably less. I work similar hours and do not have to travel. I also make a full time U. S. salary on part time hours. She's making about half that. If she possessed a simple bachelors degree she'd have been offered a substantially higher salary.

[arioch36]

i was at a school that wanted a black teacher on purpose. However treated the same way. I believe he does have a degree (this was after I left the college), but he got the worst students and the biggest classes. Sorry, an American raised Black born in South Africa. (does that sound bad, or what)
Four years later, he is still in China, but has been able to get himself better jobs

[SnoopBot]

Having the coveted MA Ed with TESOL and Bilingual Endorsements along with +5-years worth of TESOL teaching experience. I have received the following "special" benefits not given to those FT's with lesser qualifications.

1. A whopping 300-500 RMB extra a month (over the standard backpacker's wage)
2. Hidden hours often not included in the contracts
3. Flagship classes and activities requiring Foreign Expert classification
4. +20-hour a week workloads

Having higher qualifications and experience does not always equal to top pay and better conditions. The old styled Marxist way of thinking that, "I should be satisfied to be fully exploited by giving +100% effort to the state" is the most common attitude found here.

This only goes so far when you observe the BMW's and the pretty second-wives of those fellow Marxist who tell you it's "for the glorious Marxist state."

Therefore, I understand why those backpacker types and others without a high-school education desire to teach ESL in China. Why place yourself in tuition debt for a 7-year college education for an extra 300 RMB a month/ plus more work.

I don't see the situation changing in the near-future either.

[Tsuris]

[SnoopBot]

This is true, we are often unwelcomed by the Chinese staff as a neccessary evil.

For these reasons along with many others, I can not logically view this area as a perm career.

I would either pick another country or invest in my OWN training center.

Which reminds me of this joke...

Q: How can a Laowai get rich in China and become a millionaire?




A: To come to China already as a Billionaire.

[North China Laowei]

It seems to me that we haven't heard from the OP in a very long time in this thread. I can only wonder where he or she is in his or her decision-making process.