Job Discussion Forums

[DrVanNostrand]

I teach Social Studies in North Carolina and was offered a job teaching Science. The only stipulation was that I pass the Praxis II in Science, making me highly qualified to teach that subject. There is no allowance for study time, obviously that's something you do on your own. But if I wanted to teach Science, I could have signed up for the Praxis II a couple months ago, taken it two months later, passed and then I'd be considered highly qualified to teach that subject.

Without a teaching license I would not have been able to take the Praxis II and become highly qualified.

I certainly agree that the OP should figure out if this is what she wants to do before making any long-term decisions.

[SandyG20]

I had NO IDEA that states were allowing people to take a Praxis test only to be allowed to teach in additional subject areas.

In my state you need a whole new area of college study - can be 2 to 4 years full time and a FULL semester of student teaching (non paid and you are not allowed to work a paid job during this).

Obviously many people cannot do this for financial reasons.

Is it because they have such a shortage of Science teachers?

[DrVanNostrand]

No, it's just the general rule.

I guess that's why my perspective is so different than yours.

Here, in NC, once you have a teaching license you're golden.

If I'm not mistaken, I could do it in Math, English, whatever. The key is showing proficiency through the Praxis and of course having a teaching license. In fact, I recently added secondary Social Studies as an add on license by taking Praxis II. Initially, my license was for middle grades only.

The Science position that I spoke of wasn't even an emergency situation. Not even close. I interviewed with the school thinking it would be a SS position and the principal informed me during the interview that the advertisement was misleading and it was looking like the vacancy would probably be a Science position instead. He told me if I were willing to take the Praxis II, he'd hire me for the position. And this is at one of the highest performing schools in the state. A "school to watch," or whatever it's called. They'd have no problem filling that position.

Another example, I know a 6th grade Math teacher who is certified k-6 but is able to teach 6th grade Math because he took and passed the middle grades Math Praxis II test. Due to changes in standards he no longer qualifies for outrageous signing bonuses that are awarded to math teachers in Title 1 schools, but he can still teach the subject and is highly qualified to teach it despite not having any form of math degree.

It may or may not have to do with shortages. Right now there is a relatively healthy demand for teachers of all subjects in my state. We have so many baby boomers projected to retire over the next five years that jobs should be readily available for the foreseeable future. That's not to say that there's a surplus of jobs, but they're there. Especially in high needs areas.

What state are you referring to? Those standards are ridiculous.

Sarah, if she's still even paying attention, should definitely check into the state's standards for licensure before she makes any kind of decision.

[sarahg]

I am still paying attention

I have been lurking from work but haven't had the time to reply.

Will it be easy to get certified in another state if I am certified in one state? My college is in Alabama, but I don't have any particular desire to stay there after I graduate. I'd love to stay in San Diego, but I'm not excessively attached to any one area of the country, so I'm willing to move around to where I can get jobs. I'm not actually positive that I'd like to teach in the states -- but I'd also like to be set up for some job that I enjoy in the event that something happens and I can't leave the country right after graduation (I've been working on a computer science minor, which was supposed to get me jobs despite my psych major, but I don't care to work in that field long-term).

The thing about finishing now and getting a certificate later, is that it's actually more school, because it's another year of psych and computer science work on top of any certification programs. Plus, I've heard that alternative certification routes often still don't qualify you to teach in the highly desired school systems. My school also has an excellent teacher education programs and it seems like a shame to pass that up so I can go through some quickie certification program later. It's a small private school with a lot of personal attention and individual work, so they'll let me tailor my studies and experiences towards teaching ESL if I want. I'll also get a lot of experience in Special Education -- it's actually an "Elementary/Collaborative Ed" major, and there are required classes and a required student teaching semester in special education, which is another field that is begging for teachers, if ESL doesn't work out. Doing the major will also let me experience regular elementary, ESL, and special ed classes, so I can figure out which I like best, rather than having to know before I go into a program. I feel like my strength is with younger kids and special ed kids so I would rather concentrate on the ESL/Special/Primary education area and hope I get a job it one of those than go for a high school job.

Also, this is not certain until I send them my check, but I will probably be volunteer teaching this fall in Costa Rica -- I would be teaching English to 1st and 2nd graders in a rural school (Matapalo). I planned that out so that I could figure out whether teaching (ESL in particular) is for me and whether I want to change my major (I was already not registered for fall classes because I had plans to study computer science in Amsterdam which kind of fell through, so I figured I should go abroad anyways). So that's how I was planning to figure out whether it's really the career for me, and also to become more fluent in Spanish to help me out on job-searching later. (Here in CA, I can't get this experience because I'm not allowed in a classroom w/ children until I've had a certain number of credit hours and all the adult ed posts I've found wanted weekday hours which I can't do with my regular day job.)

[sarahg]

[SandyG20]

Sarah - sounds like you are doing some research - and that is a good thing. If I was in my 20s - spoke Spanish and English - as you do - and had money - I would be doing what you are. Alot of it depends on your finances. I look at it as costing more money for you - but if you can afford to stay in school - go right ahead.

But I AM already a babyboomer. But North Carolina sounds like a good place to relocate once I get to teach overseas and save some money.

Do other states do this Praxis test thing for licensing in other areas? Though I know that you do need some base knowledge to pass those exams - I have talked to people with degrees in high level maths and sciences who have failed them.

Oh and Sarah - each state has different licensing and it takes a lot of research to figure it all out - and it changes alot over time too.

[DrVanNostrand]

A few things:

1. Remember, I'm no expert so please don't take my word as gospel.

2. Reciprocity seems to vary from state to state. I assume most will accept your license without problem, but Praxis standards, although fairly general, can vary depending on the state. Some may require that you pass multiple tests. Others may only require one.

3. San Diego is one of those places that you likely will have trouble finding a teaching position.

4. You seem to have a really good grasp of what is ahead of you. Continue to educate yourself on licensure reciprocity and Praxis II standards. You may take a number of courses that relate to ESL or EC teaching, but that won't make you better qualified or even more marketable in an interview. You would either have to get licensed in one of the those fields or pass the Praxis II in both (again, consult your state's NCLB standards, etc.).

5. Teaching in Costa Rica would likely serve as an invaluable learning experience, especially if you decide to go the ESL route. IMO, teaching ESL to k-8 students here in the States is one of the most enjoyable teaching experiences that you'll find. Depending on the area, you'll find yourself in high demand with relatively small class sizes and most of the time a great group of kids that are receptive to learning.

From my own efforts, I have found that ESL positions seem to be in demand at international schools, and the pay at most of those schools is phenomenal relative to the cost of living in most areas. Depends on where you go I guess, but if you got your certification in ESL and put in a couple of years here in the States, you'd probably have a good chance of landing a relatively good paying job in stable teaching environments abroad.

6. SandyG- I assume that there are other states like mine. Again, I'm no expert, I'm just going by what I've seen and heard.

A little more than base knowledge is required for most Praxis II tests, especially higher level subjects. They are pretty intensive, though obviously passable.

You're right about different licensing in states. Anyone considering a move should definitely look into reciprocity standards and so forth.

7. Good luck with whatever you do, Sarah, and SandyG, I'm sure NC would love to have you!

[SandyG20]

Many states require ESL teachers to be bilingual - so Sarah you are in a great position to find a job.

I on the other hand was forced to take French - back in the olden days before students has choices of what they could take in high school. That would be great if I could get an EU passport.

Good luck Sarah!

I am definitely looking at North Carolina for my future return to the USA after teaching overseas.

[naturegirl321]

Americorps is another possibility. Peace Corps, I blieve is 2.5 years, because 6 months are training.

Thing about teaching is you can change. I did kindergarten for a bit, then went to university, high school and am now in primary. It's good to change things up a bit every now and then ,it keeps your teaching fresh.

But really, don't plan everything out, because things never go as you planned, they always turn out better.

[Def]

Hey sarah,

Just read through this and thought I'd offer a brief perspective, as I was in a (moderately) similar situation myself, at the end of last year. I have a BA, and the usual dime-a-dozen TEFL certificate rot, and was really wanting to go overseas.

However!

I also wanted to be able to teach in my own country (Australia) when I decided to return. Not quite sure how it works in the US, but here you cannot teach at a primary/high school, without the Graduate Diploma in Education, regardless of what state you're living in. So really, the choice was to either go overseas and teach, then years into the future come back and return to Uni for another year... or to just keep with education for '08, become a fully-qualified teacher, and then be set as far as that goes from now on.

Ultimately I chose to get the Dip Ed this year, purely because the idea of returning to Aust in another 3, 5 or 10 years, only to have to go back to Uni, just didn't appeal. I have absolutely no idea if my Australian teaching qualifications are going to be remotely useful overseas (at worst, they can't hurt), but I am far more confident about going overseas now, knowing I definitely have something to come back to when I want/need to.

I'd advise getting the qualifications you need in your own country - but, that's just because I wouldn't want to have to return home and start studying again, to be allowed to get a job.

In the end it's your choice, of course, but that might be something to consider.

[Def]

Just one other thing...

Having said all that, I should add I have wanted to be a teacher since I was about 13, so there wasn't any debate about doing the Dip Ed, it was more a matter of... what order to do things in. Maybe you could try some volunteer work in a local school, to see if teaching actually does interest you in practice, before making any great decisions?

[sarahg]

[DrVanNostrand]

Don't get me started on budgetary constraints.

[housecat]

Dear OP,

It's great that you're doing your homework!! You're quite a bit ahead of the game already.

Let me share my story with you because I think it might help you make your choice.

I began my undergraduate studies as an elementary ed major. After a couple of semesters, and a summer internship in the ed department, I decided that it was not the right choice for me. In fact, I'd chosen it because I had no idea what I wanted to do. So, instead, I chose English. I also chose English because I had no idea what to do, and it wasn't in the ed department.

With about a year to go, I decided that I'd really like to do English ed, but it would cost me another year and a half and I didn't have the finances for it. I had decided to teach overseas and I convinced myself that it didn't matter anyway because I didn't need the cert to teach over seas.

Then, in my last semester, a notoriously tough psych prof asked me to change my major and study in his department. This was very flattering because the man was really, really tough and he offered to do anything he could to help me out. But I wrote him off. I was off on my adventure in a little less than two months!!

Things went pretty well for me overseas and I spent 10 years in one place or another. When I got to Taiwan I decided to marry. I had a wonderful son and shortly after, my marriage fell appart. I didn't want to divorce in Taiwan for fear of local law giving my son to his father. So I came "home" to the States.

Can you immagine what my BA in English qualifies me for? Neither can I!! I know I applied for just about everything. I got a job as a food stamp worker that paid 10 per hour--not enough to live on. Plus it was extremely high stress work that I dreaded every single day. Not the work was bad, really, but the management and atmosphere. Lots of backstabbing going on--lotts of mess. But it was all I could find!

I wished that I'd done both the things I didn't do before graduation. That prof wanted me to study in his department because he heard me asking very good questions of a visiting psychology lecturer--I'd been dragged to the lecture by a friend who had to go for class credit. But I loved the lecture and I was very intersted in the field. I just didn't discover that I enjoyed it until my friend began to study it.

I also wish I'd gotten that education certification!! I do love teaching, and I do love ESL, but though I'd been teaching for 10 years overseas--the most I could do was sub here.

Subbing is very valuable. You find that accross one district there are WIDE variances in schools. There are great places to work and where you know your child would be safe and very well educated, and places that you wouldn't allow your child to step into, much less want to work. And you really get a very good feel for this kind of thing by subbing.

Another value of subbing is getting to try out different grades and subjects. I found that I really, really, REALLY love special ed. I may do another master later so that I can work in a spec ed classroom.

But, for now, I'm 2 semesters away from finishing up my Master of Arts in Teaching degree and certification. I've had to go back to school, and I have to study as if I'm going to be an English teacher, though I will not want to do this. I want to add TOEFL cert req.s and be an ESL teacher here. This will take another two semesters after I've finished with the MAT.

It's very expensive and very difficult to survive in the mean time. Very hard to be a full time mom, full time student, and try to work full time, too.

So, there you go. First, take every chance you have to find out what you really love and THEN persue it once your sure. Second--DO get the ed degree now. You just never know what might happen down the road. I could not have immagined that I'd marry overseas--and when I did, I couldn't have immagined things going the way they have. You can still persue other avenues of certification later, but why not go overseas with full credentials? The won't hurt at all and they will open up chances for you to teach in international schools where you'll make much more money to beging with than most teachers start out here in the States, but if you're hired from home, much of that income will be disposable as your flights and housing are provided by the schools.

Even if you don't need the cert overseas, and even if you don't use it overseas, you'll be greatful that you have it and don't have to study for two more years to get it. Just my two cents. I hope it helps you. Reading your post is like looking back at myself ten or 11 years ago.[/code]

[sarahg]