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letchluther
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| China will soon have 30 nuclear submarines .. things are going to be very interesting in the coming decade. |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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The Marxist thing was actually a joke, and my comment on the 'that sounds communist' thing was actually sarcasm. (I am a Marxist, but I already knew that China likes to cheat.)
It's funny how you try to tear people down, then talk about how you did just fine without any education. The way I see it, not only do you contradict each other, you contradict yourselves.
Alot of your knowledge has been helpful, when not peppered with arrogance, smugness, or downright snottyness (God bless the anonymity of the internet to protect you from physical intimidation or reprimand). I thank you for that.
From what I can tell though, if you can make it, I can. Trust me, I've had it alot worse than you. If you can afford to go to college and blow your money on beer/etc all the time, you have it good.
As for an apartment with no AC? Fine. I've lived in Arizona with no AC, I adapted. Dirty drinking water? I'll be coming with a good amount of money in a year, so I can afford my own, along with rent if I need it.
There are always good and bad parts to everything, and usually the loudest 5% are louder than the happy 95%. (Which may not be in this case.)
As for the gentleman speaking of having to adapt to a culture that doesn't speak English - I live in a neighborhood where no one speaks English, just fine, and prosperously.
If I get screwed over and end up homeless? I've been homeless twice, in Spanish Harlem, during a year of high crime, and I'm not Spanish. I endured. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger, and if it kills me? So what, I'll be happier. lol.
But you're right, in the end, I cannot go without a cushion. So I'll be saving for the next year, then going. If you want to make fun of me, fine. Remember that I'll be taking some of your jobs. Especially those that spent $20,000 + expenses of their family's money to get a piece of paper, just to earn 300 RMBs extra a month.
Does that make you mad? I've seen it does. I fall into those so-called 'Backpackers' and the 'Unqualified'. Those who experienced it without a degree and with little money to cushion them have my respect.
Those who went with their mommy and daddy's money to fall back on to bail them out when things got sour - make me kind of remember why I liked to outwit the rich kids at the Colleges.
If you want to make fun of me, or talk sourly to me, like I said, remember that in a year I'll be taking your jobs, qualified or not. I work harder, I am more respectful of my employers, and I don't constantly bitch about how bad I have it when I have free room and board.
I give a heartfelt thank you for your information, and a heartfelt f**k you to those who were *beep* when doing it. See you in a year. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Seska wrote: |
But you're right, in the end, I cannot go without a cushion. So I'll be saving for the next year, then going. If you want to make fun of me, fine. Remember that I'll be taking some of your jobs. Especially those that spent $20,000 + expenses of their family's money to get a piece of paper, just to earn 300 RMBs extra a month.
Does that make you mad? I've seen it does. I fall into those so-called 'Backpackers' and the 'Unqualified'. Those who experienced it without a degree and with little money to cushion them have my respect.
Those who went with their mommy and daddy's money to fall back on to bail them out when things got sour - make me kind of remember why I liked to outwit the rich kids at the Colleges.
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First , I cannot find anyone who posted negatively about you wanting to come to China. Most of us are NOT from economic upscale conditions in our home country. The majority of us can be classified as economic refugees.
Second, Do not think those of us that did get our college education did it using Mom and Dad's money. I earned my BS degree while on Active Duty serving in the US military. I would have graduated much earlier if I didn't get deployed to the first Gulf War. My master's degree was earned using VA disability benefits. A 37 MM shell impacted near me giving me an 80% VA rated service disability thus ending my 16-year military career.
After I learned how to "walk" again , I used my benefits to help support my education goals. However, this often wasn't enough and many times I had to make the choice of buying propane for heat in the winter or supporting myself going to school. I sat in -40F temperatures doing MA Ed lesson plans during the dead of winter. I've been homeless not because of substance abuse problems, divorce or other poor personal choice matters. I've been homeless because of my Service to my country.
Therefore, don't "assume" everyone here was born with a silver spoon and will try to give you the shaft if you decide to teach here in China. Many (including myself) gave you advice concerning the abuse Chinese institutions will place upon those that do not meet the government requirements for Z-visa's. If you do not have experience or the required degree they will have power over you. Horror stories exist all over the net including teachers that were basically enslaved in ESL sweat-shops.
We just wanted to give you this advice, we see this situation on a daily basis.
At the more upscale and respectful institutions you must have a real 4-year degree. Mine requires everyone to have either the MA Ed /TESOL or Applied Ling. Requirements vary upon location, institution and duties.
Nobody was trying to bash you, we are only trying to give you some honest warning about the sleaze conditions that exist for FT's here in China. |
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bradlarsen
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="jeffinflorida"]
| bearcanada wrote: |
Get serious, people. Can't you recognise a hoax when you see one?
Or maybe tell me that my long lost uncle who died in a plane crash in Nigeria left me 68,000,000 us dolars??? |
No Jeffit was only " 25,000,000 dollars |
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bradlarsen
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Seska"]
| bearcanada wrote: |
Get serious, people. Can't you recognise a hoax when you see one?
God.
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No Hoax. Seriously. I'm looking for actual answers. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have been waiting for 2 days for Dave to approve my account to tap the knowledge here.
Thats funny, it only took me 5 seconds.......Yer too much!!!...Haha |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| SnoopBot wrote: |
| Seska wrote: |
But you're right, in the end, I cannot go without a cushion. So I'll be saving for the next year, then going. If you want to make fun of me, fine. Remember that I'll be taking some of your jobs. Especially those that spent $20,000 + expenses of their family's money to get a piece of paper, just to earn 300 RMBs extra a month.
Does that make you mad? I've seen it does. I fall into those so-called 'Backpackers' and the 'Unqualified'. Those who experienced it without a degree and with little money to cushion them have my respect.
Those who went with their mommy and daddy's money to fall back on to bail them out when things got sour - make me kind of remember why I liked to outwit the rich kids at the Colleges.
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First , I cannot find anyone who posted negatively about you wanting to come to China. Most of us are NOT from economic upscale conditions in our home country. The majority of us can be classified as economic refugees.
Second, Do not think those of us that did get our college education did it using Mom and Dad's money. I earned my BS degree while on Active Duty serving in the US military. I would have graduated much earlier if I didn't get deployed to the first Gulf War. My master's degree was earned using VA disability benefits. A 37 MM shell impacted near me giving me an 80% VA rated service disability thus ending my 16-year military career.
After I learned how to "walk" again , I used my benefits to help support my education goals. However, this often wasn't enough and many times I had to make the choice of buying propane for heat in the winter or supporting myself going to school. I sat in -40F temperatures doing MA Ed lesson plans during the dead of winter. I've been homeless not because of substance abuse problems, divorce or other poor personal choice matters. I've been homeless because of my Service to my country.
Therefore, don't "assume" everyone here was born with a silver spoon and will try to give you the shaft if you decide to teach here in China. Many (including myself) gave you advice concerning the abuse Chinese institutions will place upon those that do not meet the government requirements for Z-visa's. If you do not have experience or the required degree they will have power over you. Horror stories exist all over the net including teachers that were basically enslaved in ESL sweat-shops.
We just wanted to give you this advice, we see this situation on a daily basis.
At the more upscale and respectful institutions you must have a real 4-year degree. Mine requires everyone to have either the MA Ed /TESOL or Applied Ling. Requirements vary upon location, institution and duties.
Nobody was trying to bash you, we are only trying to give you some honest warning about the sleaze conditions that exist for FT's here in China. |
You were a soldier, paid and trained to kill. You weren't drafted. If you were a Vietnam vet I'd sympathize, but seriously, you chose to do it. I'm not knocking you for your decision. That took guts, and risk.
I understand what you mean, but read the post a couple pages back. It's more of what I was referring to.
As for sleaze conditions, I'm used to them. If they're worse, I don't care. If I'm going to be poor in a country, it might as well be one I've never been to before. If I get cheated, so what? I've been scammed before, resulting in me ending up on the street/mugged. It was a cross-country trip too. I flew to New York for a job, paying out of my own pocket, I got there, no reimbursement, and they said 'Oh, I'm sorry, we gave the job to someone else. How about a nice Mailroom position?' then got shafted on my pay so much that I ended up on the street. That was during Guiliani's reign where if you aren't slumming in Harlem, he sends his goonies to scoop you up and take you to the incinerator. (If you don't believe this, look at the rate the homelessness dropped in New York under Guiliani's reign.)
So, I'm going to be honest, I've seen the worst of America. I don't mind the worst of another country, unless it's certain unstable parts of the Equator where there are tourists who have been eaten alive by rebels. |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes me glad I've always been a big fan of Ed Koch... |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: Um |
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In life one tries to position one�s self for a more comfortable life if at all possible. I started into this ESL teaching game by doing visa runs every three months in South Korea in 1990 when I was forty with no Uni degree. I have since put myself through Uni and have a grad dip plus an English teaching certificate.
If you have the right paperwork plus the experience then you have the best chance of staying in this game as things get tough. You seem to think that it is a good thing not to have climbed the ladder. You have ability but don�t seem to have used it.
Each year gets harder in this game paper wise. Every time you change jobs you have to resubmit all your paperwork again plus conform to the latest requirements.
When I started into teaching here in Asia in 1990 it was so easy to work without the right paperwork but look at things now say in a place like Korea. Things have got a lot harder here in China also in the last couple of years. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Listen, OP, you were ready to come here tomorrow using the $200.00 you had in your pocket to cover ALL your initial expenses! Thanks to the smarmy, snotty advice from some of us long-timer snobs, you've decided to get your act together for a year, then have a go. Well, good for you. THAT sounds like a plan. This means we should be hearing back from you in about one year, 3 months with a few apologies to the board about just how MANY surprises have come your way. China can be a brutal country - some endure, some flee after a few months or a year. Regardless, you have to know the ins and outs to some degree before coming and during those crucial initial months. I'm planning on leaving next summer. You can have my job. Here's a list of things I do:
1. Classroom management - - trying to figure out how to educate and entertain 25 young students who range in English abilities from very good to none.
2. Teach - - Math, Spelling, Phonics, Grammar, Writing, Science, Art, Computer keyboarding, Social Skills, Spoken English . . . and other things here and there.
3. Create lesson plans that are engaging, interesting, and achieve certain goals and objectives.
4. Testing - - spoken testing, written testing, quizzes, reviews, homework . . . what else?
5. Practice - - making sure they practice, practice, practice their English, a Christmas show rehearsals, a Spring show rehearsals, sing songs almost every day . . .
6. Administrative duties such as copying massive amounts of worksheets, overseeing new teachers as they come and go, attending occasional meetings, grading papers (constant, every day), creating art projects and Science projects (gathering materials, testing to make sure they are do-able, making sure they are not too difficult for my age group) . . .
Well, the list could go on for awhile. I like my job, I truly do. I'm pretty good at it. This may not be the type of job you would be seeking once you arrive in China, but how far would your lack-of-education and lack-of-experience get you? So, sure, go ahead and criticize us - - our rudeness and our smugness, but you opened yourself up with your naive beginning comments and questions. There's a difference between saying, "this is who I am, this is the experience I have, these are my expectations - - what are my chances?" and "I'm coming to China, I have no job experience, no money, no solid foundation but I'm coming anyway. Isn't this a good idea?" And then you expect us all to lift you on our shoulders and shout hurrah!?? Well best of luck to you 'cause you're going to need it! |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
Listen, OP, you were ready to come here tomorrow using the $200.00 you had in your pocket to cover ALL your initial expenses! Thanks to the smarmy, snotty advice from some of us long-timer snobs, you've decided to get your act together for a year, then have a go. Well, good for you. THAT sounds like a plan. This means we should be hearing back from you in about one year, 3 months with a few apologies to the board about just how MANY surprises have come your way. China can be a brutal country - some endure, some flee after a few months or a year. Regardless, you have to know the ins and outs to some degree before coming and during those crucial initial months. I'm planning on leaving next summer. You can have my job. Here's a list of things I do:
1. Classroom management - - trying to figure out how to educate and entertain 25 young students who range in English abilities from very good to none.
2. Teach - - Math, Spelling, Phonics, Grammar, Writing, Science, Art, Computer keyboarding, Social Skills, Spoken English . . . and other things here and there.
3. Create lesson plans that are engaging, interesting, and achieve certain goals and objectives.
4. Testing - - spoken testing, written testing, quizzes, reviews, homework . . . what else?
5. Practice - - making sure they practice, practice, practice their English, a Christmas show rehearsals, a Spring show rehearsals, sing songs almost every day . . .
6. Administrative duties such as copying massive amounts of worksheets, overseeing new teachers as they come and go, attending occasional meetings, grading papers (constant, every day), creating art projects and Science projects (gathering materials, testing to make sure they are do-able, making sure they are not too difficult for my age group) . . .
Well, the list could go on for awhile. I like my job, I truly do. I'm pretty good at it. This may not be the type of job you would be seeking once you arrive in China, but how far would your lack-of-education and lack-of-experience get you? So, sure, go ahead and criticize us - - our rudeness and our smugness, but you opened yourself up with your naive beginning comments and questions. There's a difference between saying, "this is who I am, this is the experience I have, these are my expectations - - what are my chances?" and "I'm coming to China, I have no job experience, no money, no solid foundation but I'm coming anyway. Isn't this a good idea?" And then you expect us all to lift you on our shoulders and shout hurrah!?? Well best of luck to you 'cause you're going to need it! |
Sounds like a great job, I'm happy for you. Maybe I'll get my own next year. 1 year, 3 months? No. If I'm going over there, it's to teach in China, then Korea (Because it's cheaper to fly into China, but will need to save a bit/luck out to get to Korea) then probably stay in Korea till I have enough to pay for a college education. I can either stay there and get it there, or go home.
Trust me, nothing in heaven or hell will keep me from getting out of the US and to Asia. Then I'll kick it with Anthony Bourdain on No Reservations one of these days, just you wait!
In otherwards, I'll take a more interesting route to pay for college, and pick up a few languages along the way. (I am also studying French atm, just out of boredom, with a beginner's Russian book already being eyed like Jeff eyes those eggrolls.) |
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eddy-cool
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Seska,
in all your posts I have been looking in vain for some interest in the country you wish to live in and work. Just quitting a life of routines and tedium back home is not an ideal motivation for moving to Korea or China. More repetitiveness awaits you here, and you will also rub in your personality on local people who will want you to be content as a laowai in a 'great country'.
I often hear from fellow laowais that Asian nationalism and attitudes impact them negatively. |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| eddy-cool wrote: |
Seska,
in all your posts I have been looking in vain for some interest in the country you wish to live in and work. Just quitting a life of routines and tedium back home is not an ideal motivation for moving to Korea or China. More repetitiveness awaits you here, and you will also rub in your personality on local people who will want you to be content as a laowai in a 'great country'.
I often hear from fellow laowais that Asian nationalism and attitudes impact them negatively. |
To be as blunt as possible, I'm looking for the Same Sh*t in a Different Country, but with the added benefit of being able to teach and apply my English skills (From what people say, it'll be occaisional, since every single job I get I will be scammed and horrible no-nos will happen, but it's worth it).
I do not know why you keep telling me how hard it is, I've lived in alot of hard situations, I've never had a "Comfort Zone".
I don't think you get how it doesn't phase me. I can live poor, I can live desperately. But how many people can honestly say they did it on foreign soil? That's what I'm looking for.
You won't talk me out of it, no matter what you say. So what's the point?
But as an added bonus, you are helping people who are trying to decide to go or not understand the gritty realism of China. I applaud that, because they need that information - but I'm a masochist. lol.
But to bridge into the next arguing point with another question instead...
Has anyone ever had an instance where the toilet in the apartment they were inspecting explode, or was a fake that when moved you saw nothing but a floor and two walls?
Also, what are some things someone should expect pest-wise in their apartments? I am assuming the rats like Chinese food too. Not to mention those lovely, immortal little *beep* - the cockroach. But what other fun pests are there to watch out for? (Barring the occaisional human pest)
As for interest in the culture... I have alot of interest in the culture, but am not naive, I have studied it and most of the 'Culture' is either a trumped up tourist attraction, or paved over.
I love the vestiges of it though. The languages especially, I am hoping to learn Cantonese after Mandarin, if I haven't moved to Korea by then. The people, and the social complexities are very interesting too.
The politics are both amusing, and horribly aggrovating by the looks.
What I really want to see, is the very rural areas though. I think they'd be really interesting to go through for a bit. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Dearest Seska - coming to China is a maturing process - a chance to view yourself, your ideas and your beliefs from inside out. In short it helps one grow-up  |
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Seska
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
| Dearest Seska - coming to China is a maturing process - a chance to view yourself, your ideas and your beliefs from inside out. In short it helps one grow-up |
You sir, just understood my true goal. *tips hat*
I've not been too social in the past, and have lacked confidence. I figure throwing myself into a country where the confidence to negotiate is a /survival/ skill, and learning to try new things as well as experiencing more than just what I've grown up around, as well as having to teach more than 1 or 2 people at a time in a familiar enviroment, shall forge me into steel.
Yes, I know I'll get scammed, yes, I know I'll be miserable off and on... But come on, that's life. We get it in our own countries. Sure it's about 50% worse, but it's an experience, and maybe, if I can make a career of it, I'll be able to get a real teaching job beyond what I'm going to have to expect when I get there. Some of the jobs I've heard from some of you guys, it's fascinating.
I will probably get my TEFL Certificate over there, if I can. I can make it work, with saving up as much as I can just to cushion my butt when I get over there. I can make it work through dedication.
But what makes me different from a hippy backpacker? I want to stay. I am determined to stay. No matter how much I get beaten down over there, being beaten down back home is just too boring. Atleast I get beaten down to the song-like language of another country.
Even when the salary gets too low, I'll get a second job. Whatever I have to do. But the United States is stale, it will always be stale, and this really isn't my kind of country. (I also wasn't born here.)
I want to teach, more than anything. I want to work my way up to the serious jobs (or as serious as I can get them), and I want to do it over there. My wants, my goals, I can accomplish them.
Not to mention I can get an online degree from a real college while over there. (I plan to get my GED next month, as part of my preperation, so it's certainly possible.) |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Seska,
Here is what I finished doing this last week to give you an idea on what might be expected from you regarding the more upscale institutions.
Monday: Professional presentations on,�Oil and gas exploration and oil reserves for CNOOC platforms.�
Tues: Oil and Gas pipeline team support project management for production to end user.
Weds: Oral English topics for SINOPEC and CNPC
Thursday: Technical English for Geophysics, oral, reading, writing, formulations.
Friday: Movie class Western History and culture
More than 20-hours teaching time. |
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