Job Discussion Forums

[Marcoregano]

[rusmeister]

[Marcoregano]

[Justin Trullinger]

[Marcoregano]

That's interesting! Though I imagine that international pilots are generally expected to have reasonable English.

And coming back to the OP, that suggests there's even less justification for forcing truckers to learn English.

[SueH]

I think in Europe it's unlikely that ATC is in anything other than English for international airports although local light aircraft doing circuits and bumps are probably in the local language. Pity I don't have a radio with airband to check out the theory. The local airport is extending it's runway, and with it the ability to take more international flights, so perhaps that's another teaching opportunity....

[Justin Trullinger]

[Marcoregano]

Hi Justin, sounds like you know your stuff re. air travel, etc. But - just trying to get my head around it - isn't it essential that international pilots have the facility to communicate with air traffic control wherever they fly? If I understand you correctly, it would appear not - but then how does your Turkish or Japanese pilot communicate if his plane takes a dive over Paris?

[Justin Trullinger]

By way of explanation, yeah- I'm involved in ICAO English proficiency compliance implementation here in Ecuador. (A long phrase to meaning "teaching and testing English for aviation.")

In theory, what you're describing ( a pilot should be able to communicate with the ATC wherever she flies) is what the world is shooting for. I just wanted to emphasize that it's fairly new, in terms of being an actual requirement rather than a common sense recommendation, and that compliance is, as yet, incomplete.

The question of how a Turkish or Japanese would communicate if his plane takes a dive over Paris is one of the ones the new regs try to solve. But in the current situation, simply put- he might communicate in English, he might communicate in French, or, in a worst case scenario, he might be unable to communicate. More common than true inability is just the fact of slow, laborious, incomplete communication. But remember that most pilots don't literally fly everywhere- most fly set routes. So here in Ecuador, for example, non-English speaking international pilots can fly easily throughout Latin America, or frankly to Miami. Likewise, as German is one of the more common second languages in Turkey, one suspects that there are a fair number of Turkish pilots who know it, and fly that route.

I guess you could say that it's generally considered essential that pilots can communicate with ATC- but what that means, until very recently, has been left to individual countries, or in many cases individual airlines, to decide. And I've met and heard of a shocking number of pilots from around latin america who fly routes into the US, basically having memorized the common phrases related to landing in a given airport. Works fine 99.999% of the time- but on that rare day that there's a mishap, the fact that they don't actually speak much English may be significant. Hence the new rules.

I find it interesting, though- to fly into the US (or England, or Australia) those countries have internal requirements for pilots to speak English; in theory, a foreign pilot in the US who demonstrates insufficiency in English is subject to penalties. But US and European flights flying into Latin America are generally under no obligation to use Spanish or Portuguese speaking pilots, and most do not. Seems odd and unbalanced to me.

Add to that the fact that, under new requirements, virtually all international pilots may soon be required to speak English. Even, it seems, those who fly in regions that don't require it. (Ecuador to Chile, for example.) I ask myself how many veteran middle aged pilots are going to be able to learn what they need to, on a pilot's schedule. Some will, I'm sure- but some, I suspect, will take early retirement, turn to flying charters within their own countries, or become flight instructors. It looks to me like one unintended effect of the English requirement may be the general reduction of flight experience levels of international flight crews. (Because younger pilots are more likely to already speak English, but have many fewer hours of actual flight time.) Interesting, isn't it?



Best,

Jsutin

PS- and pardon the thread Jacking. Do you get the idea that I think about this stuff a lot?

[rusmeister]

[jonniboy]

[Justin Trullinger]

[Stephen Jones]

There are Saudi female commercial pilots. Don't know what country they work in though.

What's wrong with using singular 'they' Justin?

[rusmeister]

[Justin Trullinger]

Hi there-

Nothing wrong with the singular "they," as far as I'm concerned. Maybe a little inelegant, as it's clearly plural in origin, though now frequently used that way.

I didn't set out to make a gender related statement; as previously stated, I don't really know why I wrote that particular pronoun. I'm wondering if it had to do with the fact that I see a lot of pilots and atc nowadays, and the most recent pilot in my office was a young Ecuadorian woman named Cristina.

In any case, I find it interesting to see the ways that women are, in fact, making rapid inroads into a traditionally extremely and almost entirely male-dominated field. (Even in cultures as traditional as Ecuador.)

Best,
Justin

PS- "vive la difference" indeed! The differences include some of my personal favorites. But what's the difference that causes the majority of pilots to be men...it's an interesting question, isn't it?