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EFLUndercover
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
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 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Deleted |
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deleted.
Last edited by EFLUndercover on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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word_to_the_wise
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| It's pronounced 'Reeyath' |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| word_to_the_wise wrote: |
| It's pronounced 'Reeyath' |
If we want to be really pedantic about the sounds, it is more properly 'ArReeyadh' since it is not actually the 'th' sound that exists in English.
VS |
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EFLUndercover
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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deleted.
Last edited by EFLUndercover on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm even more confused than I was before. I remember that ''Riyadh'' taxis carried a sign saying ''Arriyadh'' yet traffic signals around the city lead to ''Riyadh''. Maps of Saudi use what I thought was the definite article before some cities. I also heard that words in Arabic NEVER start with a vowel, even common names such as Ali, Ahmed etc. Maybe EFLundercover could throw some light on this.
Regards
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no expert on Arabic, unfortunately, but I do believe that the city i referred to as "Ar Riyadh" in Arabic, because, believe it or not, the direct translation for "Ar Riyadh' is 'the gardens'.
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| I also heard that words in Arabic NEVER start with a vowel, even common names such as Ali, Ahmed etc. |
This is correct. Even words, such as the above, which to our untutored ears appear to begin with a vowel, strictly speaking do not. What sounds to us as an 'a' is in fact either an 'ain' (as in "Ali") or a vowel preceded by a glottal stop. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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One problem is that there is no 'official' transliteration system from Arabic to English even within one country. I can't speak for Saudi, but in other countries in the Gulf you will see road signs for the same place spelled 5 or 6 or 8 different ways - mostly caused by the inclusion of non-English sounds. Then you have the phonetic variants of "Al" which may or may not be connected to the noun when transliterated into English as it would be in Arabic.
It takes some getting used to...
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EFLUndercover
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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deleted.
Last edited by EFLUndercover on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| I'm no expert on Arabic, unfortunately, but I do believe that the city i referred to as "Ar Riyadh" in Arabic, because, believe it or not, the direct translation for "Ar Riyadh' is 'the gardens' |
''The Gardens'' or, as I was told, ''green place''. The singular is ''Rawdah'', apparently. Kuwait and ''Riyadh'' both have neighbourhoods called Rawdah. Strange, in my opinion, since neither of them are leafy or garden-like. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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There is no clearly defined transliteration scheme from Arabic to English so EFLundercover is just blinding us with false knowledge.
The letter at the end is transliterated in some systems as a 'd' with a dot underneath. If you don't have that available as an option then you are stuffed because there are three 'd' sounds in Arabic, and only two possible transliterations 'd' and 'dh'. In the 1990s Riyad Bank decided to transliterate it as a 'd', which is a perfectly valid alternative, but later backtracked in the face of ignorant opposition.
It is not normal to distinguish the alef from the fatha by using a double 'aa' for the long vowel, but would be a reasonable alternative if used consistently.
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| Sometimes this is correct and sometimes it is not. For example, with 'ArRiyaadh' it would be incorrect to write or say 'AlRiyaadh' because the 'R' is doubled in pronounciation and although in 'Arabic there is 'lam' or L written, it is not pronounced. |
Both ArRiyadh. Ar-Riyadh and Al-Riyadh are perfectly legitimate transliterations; it's a question of which system you elect to follow. To claim that those who don't make the same choice as you are linguistically ignorant is pure presumption. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Strange, in my opinion, since neither of them are leafy or garden-like. |
There are lots of palm trees growing naturally in Riyadh. You need to take the road to Ad-Diriyah near KSU or the BAE compound. You'll also see lots of Royal palaces perched on top of the craggy hills. All in all a very pleasant landscape. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Just for the fun of it, I checked for trains from Riyadh to Dammam on http://saudirailways.org/english/time_table.asp and I got the following:
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Rehab Class 130 Riyal
First Class 75 Riyal
Second Class 60 Riyal |
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So apparently, you get the most luxury and creature comforts if you are a recovering addict!  |
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EFLUndercover
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: |
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deleted.
Last edited by EFLUndercover on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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But since you don't know me or my academic qualifications then you are not in a position to cast doubt.
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I am in every position to cast doubt even if you had bothered to let us know all about you and your presumed academic qualifications.
All you have managed to show is that one dictionary uses a particular method of transcription. Unfortunately as has been pointed out elsewhere there is no agreement on transliteration of Arabic letters into Roman letters.
With regard to the article some prefer to give the phonetic transliteration for the sun letters, some prefer always to use 'Al'. It is a matter of personal preference whether one method is considered better than another.
Egyptians insist on transliteration the article by 'El', yet rarely use 'e' as the transliteration of fatha under other circumstances. Then we get the bizarre fanatics who insist that damma must be transliterated by 'o' in Mohammad but 'u' in Muslim.
I would be the first to be overjoyed if there was an agreed system of transliteration. Unfortunately Arabists are as fractious a bunch as the speakers of the language they study, and there isn't one.
To presume, as you do, that those who follow a different system of transliteration from your preferred one are ignorant of the basics, is both ignorant and ill-mannered. |
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