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Kidnappings and the like
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would be more worried about getting randomly hit in a balacera than I would be worried about getting kidnapped.


One of the reasons why I prefer Mexico City to anywhere outside it (thought of as barbalandia here).

Quote:
I actually feel safer in my neck of the woods because everywhere I go here, there are cops with automatics.


I've never thought of this...guess it's part of being a pacific sort of person living in Mexico City or from Ottawa where i really couldn't tell if the guy pointing a gun at me is holding a threatening machine that fires fatal lead automatically or if the assailant actually has to manually reload each time he shoots me.
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jfurgers



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Perisur mall one cannot talk on their cell outside of a bank. You have to be away from the banks if you're going to be talking on it. Same for inside the bank.
No talking on your cell. I think it's because two guys could be doing this to rob someone after they leave the bank. One guy in the bank calls his pal who is outside of the bank and tells him which person just made a nice withdrawl then they could rob the person.
A couple of days ago my wife,her student and I were in the Scotiabank and she had her sunglasses on. The teller told her she has to take them off while in the bank.
I guess they're worried about bank robbers or people who may try to do an express kidnapping after one leaves the bank. And if your cell rings while you're in the bank you can't answer it.
I like the security measures they have at the banks. It's sad that they have to do that but at least they have measures that can help protect their customers.
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thelmadatter



Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: crime? Reply with quote

Quote:
Any sense I might have that I'm less safe in Mexico is thoroughly counterbalanced by my daily read of the newspaper from my southern Ontario home town. Plenty of bad stuff seems to go on there every day.


You mean there is CRIME IN CANADA????????? Shocked Laughing
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notamiss



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re security measures in banks, many if not most banks have pictoral signs up showing the three main things you can't use inside the bank: No sunglasses, No cell phones, No caps (the visor blocks the view of the user's face from the security cameras).
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Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just in Mexico City, either. Our local banks have signs showing no cell phones, but they also enforce the sunglasses and baseball cap rule. The downtown HSBC bank has a robbery-prevention door with an automatic mechanism that contains people in a little glassed-in lobby between the street door and a secondary door to the inside. If one door is open the other won't open. The tourists get confused when they try to enter the bank (or leave) because they don't understand the instructional recording whch plays when a door first opens.
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JakeJakeJake



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my two cents. Ive only been here for a couple of months but I feel pretty much safe in Mexico City. I feel safer than being in Manchester, England thats for sure. In manchester, I fear for my safety walking at night. I feel comfortable here walking centrally, anytime.

I havent had an intimidating situation. I now live just north of Condesa so its very safe, though before I lived in Santo Domingo for 6 weeks, a poorish neighbourhood. Many mexicans suck their teeth when I tell them that saying it is a dangerous area for foreigners. Well thats a load of bollocks to be perfectly honest, I felt safe the whole time.

Just a observation....in terms of attitudes, I was never called gringo once in 6 weeks in Santo Domingo.....i was an object of interest and the occasional giggle.... but Ive been called gringo and pinche gringo about 6 times in 10 days living near Reforma.
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Mrs L



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Rainy England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeySaid wrote:

Here in Torreon, things are consistently getting worse. One of the neighboring cities in the Laguna is currently being policed by the Mexican Army because the police all threw up their hands and quit after several were murdered in the police station by one of the two drug trafficking groups that has moved into the area. It hasn't touched me personally, but I am aware that the city has changed. Clubs have closed their doors as have casinos. Restaurants are closing earlier, and the state of Durango (read: Gomez Palacio and Lerdo) are to be avoided at night.


It's interesting that you say you're aware of a change, Mickeysaid.

We're just back from a family visit to Michoacan and I was very aware that the city had changed a lot in the last year. There are kidnappings again (there hadn't been any for about 10 years), people don't go out after dark, a lot of the super rich are abandoning the town out of fear meaning businesses are closing so there's more unemployment. Those that do stay are paying protection money to the mafia not to be kidnapped, and people are scared.

In the past I always felt that as a foreigner I'm not a target but kidnappers do make mistakes and kidnap the wrong person (it happened recently in Mich- they let the lady go but she was understandably traumatised).

As everyone has said, an ESL teacher with no connections to any Mexicans is extremely unlikely to be kidnapped. However, we've made the drastic decision to stay in rainy England for the time being and not to return to Mexico after finishing my MA because of the current situation. We're watching closely to see if it improves though!!
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JakeJakeJake wrote:

Just a observation....in terms of attitudes, I was never called gringo once in 6 weeks in Santo Domingo.....i was an object of interest and the occasional giggle.... but Ive been called gringo and pinche gringo about 6 times in 10 days living near Reforma.


I live near Reforma a few blocks from El �ngel (on the side where the American Embassy sits). Maybe it's because I'm a middle-aged woman, but I've never been called "gringo" or any of its unpleasant variants in all the time I've lived here. Just lucky I guess... Question
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El Gallo



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeySaid wrote:


I would be more worried about getting randomly hit in a balacera than I would be worried about getting kidnapped.


This worries me, too. Chiapas used to be very safe and secure but when the Procuradora was removed for being the boss of the narco-traficantes, it opened up competition here among the drug cartels, and gunfights in the street with the police have become more common.

I flinch every time I hear firecrackers now in the city. It's a good idea to stay alert, keep track of your surroundings and to know how to take cover if one is near this situation (maybe now my army training will come in handy) Sad
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kosherpickle



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ls650 wrote:


Who is telling you this?

Mexicans are telling me this

Guy Courchesne wrote:


So you will be worth 3000-5000 ATM pesos by that reckoning...very far from the 10,000,000 pesos a local elite is worth for a kidnap. I know we all like to feel really *special* as foreigners, but this is a case where we really don't come up on the radar, so to speak.

try 3000-5000 pesos A DAY until they empty the bank account. It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special, it's just how it is, according to what the natives say.
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Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natives?
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kosherpickle wrote:
ls650 wrote:


Who is telling you this?

Mexicans are telling me this

Guy Courchesne wrote:


So you will be worth 3000-5000 ATM pesos by that reckoning...very far from the 10,000,000 pesos a local elite is worth for a kidnap. I know we all like to feel really *special* as foreigners, but this is a case where we really don't come up on the radar, so to speak.

try 3000-5000 pesos A DAY until they empty the bank account. It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special, it's just how it is, according to what the natives say.


And how many days is that until you reach the 10,000,000 peso mark? I assume you can do math as do the ominous kidnappers out to get us all.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my students was the victim of an express kidnapping a few months ago. And earlier this week, his car was broken into in the middle of the night in front of his house. he lives on a gated street in a better than average area. His radio, speakers and all four of his tires/rims/hubcaps were stolen along with the spare tire as well.

Kidnapping is out of control. Thankfully, mostly poor foreign teachers living here don't seem to be targets, yet. I don't think that other types of crime are all that bad here.

Sometimes, I wonder if things would be better if common citzens were able to own guns and fight back legally. I think that these "express" kidnappers would think twice if more people were packing heat and were ready to use it.

I carry pepper spray anyways...
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I carry pepper spray anyways...


and when is the last time you used it?

Arming the population..sounds like a great way to increase the crime rate, as one would see in the US over somewhere more pacific like Canada, where there is a good reason why there isn't a homicide rate similar to most third world countries.

Quote:
Just lucky I guess... Question


Yes, as MO states, most people in Mexico City must just be lucky for not having fallen victims to Hollywood crimes. For me, 8 years living in this city and never having suffered anything worse than a pothole, I guess I'm the Chosen One.
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MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof.Gringo wrote:
One of my students was the victim of an express kidnapping a few months ago. And earlier this week, his car was broken into in the middle of the night in front of his house. he lives on a gated street in a better than average area.


I've very sorry that your student was a victim - I hope he is doing all right now. The fact that he lives on a gated street in a very nice area is probably why he was targeted - the kidnappers suspect that the families of people who live in those kinds of neighborhoods are bound to have enough cash on hand to pay a ransom to get their loved ones back safely.
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