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kosherpickle
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 93
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 Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
So you will be worth 3000-5000 ATM pesos by that reckoning...very far from the 10,000,000 pesos a local elite is worth for a kidnap. I know we all like to feel really *special* as foreigners, but this is a case where we really don't come up on the radar, so to speak. |
Also, i would guess the worst part of being kidnapped isn't so much the monetary loss as it would be the uncertainty of what would happen to you and the loss of your freedom. It would suck being killed for just 3000 pesos
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
And how many days is that until you reach the 10,000,000 peso mark? I assume you can do math as do the ominous kidnappers out to get us all. |
As many days as it takes?
Does it really matter whether someone gets kidnapped by elite kidnappers or small time express-kidnappers?
I live in the Tlalpan area, and not only i live 4 houses away from an ex-inmate who was sent to prison for stealing cars/kidnapping a person, i have also been told that express-kidnapping is very common and that they do keep the person for days until they empty their bank account(s)... not so express.
That and the fact that they do seem to prey on spring-breakers and backpacking tourists makes me wonder if it's safe to just ignore the fact that kidnappings are a trend that is on the rise. Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it's not happening at all. Circular logic isn't going to protect you when the time comes.
Other stuff that is pretty common: cellphone fake kidnappings, where they use social engineering to get info from their victims and then once they have enough data about relatives, workplaces, etc., they make a phonecall saying they have kidnapped a relative and ask for money, usually in the form of cellphone credit for whatever the reason. |
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robertokun
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've never understood the logic of, "I feel safe because there are guys with automatic weapons around me." To me, the more security guards/cops/soldiers there are around with guns, the less safe the area is.
I think the pepper spray idea might have potential, unless you get a gun pulled on you. It might be weird to carry it around on you when you go out. I wouldn't know, though. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| That and the fact that they do seem to prey on spring-breakers and backpacking tourists makes me wonder if it's safe to just ignore the fact that kidnappings are a trend that is on the rise. |
Please show us a case. Then please show us how it is on the rise.
You're right in that I as a single person do not make the best case study on a national crime wave. But, I do represent foreign teachers here very well, which is closer to what this thread is about. I mentioned earlier that we as foreign teachers living here are less likely to be victims of kidnap. Take a good look around at all the folks posting here...how many of us have been kidnapped?
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| I live in the Tlalpan area, and not only i live 4 houses away from an ex-inmate who was sent to prison for stealing cars/kidnapping a person, i have also been told that express-kidnapping is very common and that they do keep the person for days until they empty their bank account(s)... not so express. |
I'll bet dollars to donuts you've never actually talked to this person and that your story is neighborhood fable.
Chicken Little, the sky is not falling despite what your neighbors and Fox news tells you. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Opposing opinions are in order here. At the same time, the repetition of unsubstantiated opinions tends to result in argument only for argument's sake. This will not be permitted to continue. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| robertokun wrote: |
I've never understood the logic of, "I feel safe because there are guys with automatic weapons around me." To me, the more security guards/cops/soldiers there are around with guns, the less safe the area is.
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Think about it for a minute or two my friend. Across the street from where I live there are (during the weekdays when people are working) at least eight or nine guys with automatics stationed in different locations. I'm not a security expert so I could be wrong, but I think kidnappers wouldn't want to go against nine cops who have the same kind of weapons as the bad guys when they could take someone with a false police road block mush easier.
I actually feel safer in the Perisur mall down the road from me than I do in ANY mall in the States. Remember the guy who walked into a mall and started shooting with a rifle?? The mall security had no chance against a rifle.I don't even think they carry a gun. I forgot how many he killed before killing himself, but I think it's safe to say that if someone walked into the Perisur mall with a rife under his coat, he wouldn't kill as many people because the cops would fill him with lead.
The cops with the autos are a deterant...at least in my humble opinion. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| robertokun wrote: |
I think the pepper spray idea might have potential, unless you get a gun pulled on you. It might be weird to carry it around on you when you go out. I wouldn't know, though. |
Are we allowed to carry pepper spray or tear gas since we're not Mexicans? I have seen some at Sanborn's but wasn't sure if I could carry it since it may be considered a weapon. |
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john_n_carolina
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 700
Location: n. carolina
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
I actually feel safer in the Perisur mall down the road from me than I do in ANY mall in the States. Remember the guy who walked into a mall and started shooting with a rifle?? The mall security had no chance against a rifle.I don't even think they carry a gun. I forgot how many he killed before killing himself, |
....great point --totally agree...i rarely shop malls anymore and if i do i'm constantly looking both directions.
the guy i think you were talking about was in the Utah mall? he killed five and wounded 4, and would've kept shooting if it were not for an 'off duty' cop that was carrying a gun.
however, he was a Bosnian illegal immigrant. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| johninmaine wrote: |
the guy i think you were talking about was in the Utah mall? he killed five and wounded 4, and would've kept shooting if it were not for an 'off duty' cop that was carrying a gun.
however, he was a Bosnian illegal immigrant. |
What's your point about the shooter's nationality and immigration status? That only illegal immigrants are responsible for shooting sprees in America's hallowed halls of commerce? |
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john_n_carolina
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 700
Location: n. carolina
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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...yeah i guess you're right, that's not much of a point, or even worth putting in. i guess the only point would be that many people outside the U.S. think that it is always the postmen, fired electrician, divorced white Southern men, that commit these types of crimes. at least, that's what the majority of my students down in S.America always said.
i won't go into other examples, because then the thread is spreading too far out.
the title of the thread is 'kidnappings and the like' and i have no knowledge whatsoever of the actual June 2008 statistics for this.
i do feel safer in L.American malls for sure.
as far as kidnappings, it seems one of the best ways to prevent anything like this ever happening is to learn about 'Taxi Safety'. for i.e. never use a street taxi after 9PM etc, ....try to use a 'call taxi' that is recommended by the bar, hotel, or wherever you may be. |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeySaid wrote: |
Here in Torreon, things are consistently getting worse. One of the neighboring cities in the Laguna is currently being policed by the Mexican Army because the police all threw up their hands and quit after several were murdered in the police station by one of the two drug trafficking groups that has moved into the area. |
SLP is going much the same way. It seems that organised crime is on the up with piracy currently being absorbed by a well-known gang. Nearly all the puestos are closing down or selling everything off for as little as $1 peso. Police officers are also getting killed here as well but as many have said, this is a realm well outside what johnny foreigner will most likely experience here. I saw far more petty crime in England than I have in the 3 or so years I've been here. |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think spraying pepper spray on a person would likely be considered to be an assault. A foreigner who sprayed an intersection window-wash guy got a surprise. He discovered that on a windy day, the plan can completely back-fire, and you can be in big trouble.
On the bank withdrawal issue, I discovered that at least some foreign banks not only have a daily limit, but also a weekly limit which overrides the daily limits. Once my weekly limit is reached (about 3 days worth of maximum ATM withdrawals), that's it for a week. Check with your bank about your weekly limit. I discovered mine by accident when I needed to make a large purchase. I called Canada and they were happy to explain it to me, but security rules prevented them from allowing more withdrawals. |
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jillford64
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 397
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Mrs. L.,
I'm curious which city in Michoac�n you are referring to.
Jill |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
| robertokun wrote: |
I think the pepper spray idea might have potential, unless you get a gun pulled on you. It might be weird to carry it around on you when you go out. I wouldn't know, though. |
Are we allowed to carry pepper spray or tear gas since we're not Mexicans? I have seen some at Sanborn's but wasn't sure if I could carry it since it may be considered a weapon. |
As far as I know, carrying pepper spray is legal. My logic for that is that it's sold in many shops and stores, and when I have asked the police they told me it was OK.
I have used pepper spray. I have been trained in the US. Part of that training process is getting sprayed yourself with it. I can tell you it works. I have also pepper sprayed several people and seen a number of others get sprayed as well. Only once was it not 100% effective. When an ex-con who was used to getting sprayed in prison by the guards was able to block some of the spray with his arm. He kept coming, but the sight of a 50,000 volt stun gun crackling changed his mind real quick.
Pepper spray comes in three main types: Stream, mist and foam. Stream works best in confined spaces and on windy days. Since it shoots out as a stream of liquid you have to be more accurate and really get it in the attacker's face, nose, mouth, eyes. Mist spray works great because it is very difficult to block and accuracy isn't as much of an issue. Like another poster said, it can come back and hit you on a windy day. So, you should close your eyes or turn away as you use it (try not to close them all the way or you can't see where your spray is going!) and the foam stuff. I have never seen foam in Mexico, but it's a favorite of corrections officers in the US. It sprays out and foams up an attackers face and eyes. It burns like hell and it blinds you (temporarily of course). I have only see the stream and mist kinds of pepper spray here in Mexico.
Pepper spray is non-lethal and doesn't cause permanent damage. Anyone can use it and it really works. A stun gun might be considered a weapon in Mexico and there have been cases of people dying from getting hit by a stun gun/taser. A knife is a terrible choice for self-defense. It's illegal, deadly and in the hands of an untrained user it will probably be taken and used against you by an assailant. Guns are effective. They also kill. In Mexico they are illegal without a permit from the Sec. of Defense.
I wasn't saying that everybody should have a gun. Only that kidnappers would probably think twice about grabbing people if there were more guns. Of course other crime would increase, such as violent armed robbery.
I have carried pepper spray for years. I have had to use it in the US several times. Almost in Mexico, but I was able to diffuse the situation. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Are we allowed to carry pepper spray or tear gas since we're not Mexicans? |
How about stun guns here? I was surprised when an American student of mine arrived recently with one..and it passed through at the airport. |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| He flew down from the USA with a stun gun, yet the TSA seizes lighters and baby bottles. That's a good job those guys are doing... |
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