Job Discussion Forums

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

I guess you've never had Ss who routinely skip or sleep in class. I don't take attendance. University Ss are supposed to make their own choices. Those of my Ss who tried all had noticable improvement. If the rest didn't care, why should I?

foster · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 485 Location: Honkers, SARS

Being in a high-school, I don't do any TOUCHY at all..but I do provide praise for the kids when they do well. I try to help them with encouragement but not over doing it. I am not a touchy feeling person to begin with, so that is just not a good idea.

Lanza-Armonia · Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:53 pm Post subject:

I supposed this 'touch-feely' stuff is different for each educational level. I teach kindys so you have to highly praise and highly dicipline at the same time Rolling Eyes

. If I was teaching Uni, then I probably wouldn't go OTT like I do in kindy, but still give the appropriate amount praise if someone does a good essay. If you don't they could think every foreigner is this stuck up meister that doesn't know his head from his a$$. (I apologise to all feminists. When I learned English some 12 years ago, I was told it's common to refer to the human race as the male form, especially in the Romanic languages). Rolling Eyes

Capergirl · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:12 pm Post subject:

You know, I spent some time thinking about this topic and I would have to say now that I do care about my students. I care if they learn or don't learn. I care if they fare badly on an exam (specificially, the TOEIC test). I'm not concerned for my job, but I am concerned for theirs. These students are adults who have left their families (and in many cases, this includes a spouse and children) to come to Canada and be trained for their jobs. They are intelligent, hard-working people and they deserve success. I, as their teacher, want to see them succeed and when they do succeed, yes, I am proud of them!

I just ran into one of my former students from the UAE last weekend. He is a student now at the local coast guard college and is doing really well. So well, in fact, that he is one of the best students in the program. I am so thrilled for him. Why wouldn't I feel happiness and pride when I hear that he is doing well? He has worked hard to get where he is and as his former teacher, I feel that I helped him in some way to achieve his goals.

Does this make me "touchy-feely"? Well, maybe it does. However, I also think it makes me a good teacher. My students know that I care. They know that if I tell them that they need to do X, it is because X is going to help them in the long-run. I am not being arbitrary. I want them to do well and will try my best to help them when they need help. Students are able to decipher who is there to help them and who is just there to do the job and go home. If you don't care about your students, why be in this profession at all?

johnslat · Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: Touch and feel THIS!

Dear Capergirl,

"If you don't care about your students, why be in this profession at all?"

1. For the BIG BUCKS?
2. Because it beats working for a living?

Just kidding, really. I agree wholeheartedly with the implication in your question. There are undoubtedly some people in ESL/EFL who don't care about their students - or about much else - but in my experience, the vast majority DO. Anyone who doesn't should do him/herself and the students a big favor and find another line of work. "Touchy-feely" is a loaded, prejudicial term, anyway - rather like "bleeding heart" - and is almost always used only by people who are trying to justify their lack of interest, commitment and caring.
Regards,
John

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I don't think many people would accuse me of being the touchy-feely type. I was the youngest of 4 boys, fought and clawed for everything, still tend to be too confrontational, especially in China. I am also a strict teacher, on the surface.

I think there is a definite element in education and society that REPLACES rational thought and objective reasoning woth tochy-feely because it allows them to delude themselves, thinking all is now okay because we have expressed ourselves. This sort of touchy feely is hideous to me, I think it keeps us from confronting and dealing with problems.

I think we all definitely need to learn how to be a good teacher in the "self-actualization" of our own personalities (and our own nationalities)

On the other hand, a girl I wish i had married taught first grade. As each student arrived for the day, and as each student left, she hugged them, and told them she loved them. The students could feel this, and they worked for her. But also, there was this one boy...I don't know if his parents legally abused him, but I do believe this hug and her class might have been all he knew about love, and I think God will highly reward her someday, even if society wll never know what a service she had done.

When I taught high school, when the class knew I loved them, and it was mutual, teaching was much easier, and much more fun. I am not the comic type, but we were able to enjoy each other, and I believe it definitely increased classroom effectiveness. For the high school, the Chinese teacher would often have to sit in on the class.

The students were talking in their groups of four. Normally I would be on the prowl to make sure everyone was practicing as they should. I was talking to the teacher instead, and I said, no, I have to go prowl the classroom. She said, wistfully, "you don't have to because the students love you, and they are leting you sit and talk", and she was right. I wouldn't do it all the time, but this time the students were rewarding me by doing the work well without me.

Developing "Love", mutual trust, etc is very important. I let my boy and girl college students"hug" (in a non sexual way) me, hold on to my arm, usually, when they want it, though I really feel unnatural holding a boy, it is how they do it in China, and of course allowing a girl to hug you (i never hug the girl) is dangerous, and requires care and self-discipline.

Years ago I might have argued against this, but now I see how much it means to them, what confidence it gives them in themselves. So how does this group feel about allowing a college/high school student to hug (from the side, basically hugging the arm so there is no frontal contact) ??? I know in my heart I feel right, yet if i saw another teacher being hugged by a student, I think I would feel it was wrong (talk about being hypocritical), escpecially a female teacher being hugged by a boy, but then i know what dogs many boys are.

ChadwickKent · Joined: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 55

Students who do not care have not been taught to care. If you claim to be a teacher why don't you try teaching them to care, try motivating them, rather than taking the easy way out and not caring yourself. What are you paid for anyway?

Students know if you love to teach and they know how you feel about them. They respond positively to a loving and caring teacher.

Backpackers beware! The students know who you are and what you are, sometimes even before you realize it yourself.

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

The original poster (Leeroy) didn't say he didn't care for his students, he said "on an affective level, I don't care about my students at all", which is not the same thing, at all. While I certainly care a lot for my students I can also empathise with what he is saying.

In a similar vein, I loathe what an old American teacher-friend once described as the "dog and pony show" style of teaching, unless the recipients are kids that is. Dog and pony show teachers utilise a loud, brash style in the classroom - often an extension of their own persona, and which in Asia probably scares the s**t out of some of the students - backed up with balloons and whistles, funny ha-ha games, and the like. The objective seems to be to whip the students up into a hoopla frenzy which disguises the fact that there isn't much teaching going on. While there might be an excuse for this sort of c**p with youngsters and maybe, adult beginners, it generally gives me the creeps whenever I come across it and can be a real pain if you have this type of class going on next door.

Belmont · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: touchy feely

Capergirl · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: touchy feely

Belmont · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject: touchy feelie

Dear Capergirl,

I realize I was making a sweeping generalization about Brits not being "nurturing" in the classroom. Wink

However, in my years of overseas teaching, the comments I always got from the adult students were: "you friendly; other teachers not nice". Of course who knows what they were saying to the Brits about us Yanks? Laughing

waxwing · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 719 Location: China

Interesting topic. I think I've met some brilliant teachers who I would never have described as 'nurturing' or 'touchy-feely'. It seems to me that what most really, really good teachers share is something I would call 'charisma' (sadly I don't possess it but I think I can recognise it). The way it manifests itself seems to be different in each case; it might be 'touchy-feely' and about love, or it might be humour, or it might be some kind of professionalism or creativity. Hmm never really thought about this before, and I don't think I'll try with a hangover Smile

Cleopatra · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject:

It's not just a 'man thing'. I'm a woman and am put off big time by all the 'touchy feely' stuff you speak of. In my training course, we were told not to write in red ink on students' homework in case we intimidated them!

Ridiculous, particularly as, outside of the school setting you often find yourself dealing with highly placed business men twice your age, who would never even consider the possibility that some EFL teacher could 'intimidate' them!

What also gets on my nerves is when teacher trainers apply the same approach to the trainees! All that sitting around in non-confrotational circles nonsense.

A colleague of mine reckons that this 'touchy feely' approach is due to the fact that TEFL as we now know it was developed by a bunch of hippies in the early 70s. Any takers on this theory?

Belmont · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject: touchy feelie

Cleo said: "A colleague of mine reckons that this 'touchy feely' approach is due to the fact that TEFL as we now know it was developed by a bunch of hippies in the early 70s. Any takers on this theory?"

It may have its roots in the 70's when everyone put on a backpack and started traveling, but I think this teaching style has always been around: student centered rather than teacher centered--students should be speaking more than the teacher. You can also blame Steven Krashen and his "Natural Approach".

The person who posted the reply just above Cleo's made great sense! And yes, nothing out of the ordinary should be attempted with a hangover.

And Cleo, I feel sorta dopey too when I'm put in a group at a training session. In fact I just went through one a couple weeks ago. I personally find it confusing and distracting--as a teacher and as a participant. However, when you've got 25 students packed in a room, it is a way of keeping them "engaged". It is the favored classroom activity for teaching adults here in Los Angeles (LAUSD) where I'll be returning to teach. I'm gonna have to get good at doing the "cooperative learning" thing, which does work pretty well with our student population of mostly Hispanics.