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phobofanatic
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Blacklist? |
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| Is there a way to find out if someone has been put on a black list by the PSB? My friend broke her contract and returned home (after a threat by a PSB official that she wouldn't be allowed to return) and would like to know if she will be able to work in China again or not. Thanks! |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Blacklist? |
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| phobofanatic wrote: |
| Is there a way to find out if someone has been put on a black list by the PSB? My friend broke her contract and returned home (after a threat by a PSB official that she wouldn't be allowed to return) and would like to know if she will be able to work in China again or not. Thanks! |
Please do a search for "blacklist" on this Board. It has a topic that has been so, so thoroughly covered and there are numerous posts, if not threads, about it. |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to say there may be a blacklist for those that come to China to spread religion, denounce China as a country or their politics, or perhaps commit a crime.
But I really think there is no blacklist for teachers who run or break their contract.
If so, I would have been denied entry into China a few years ago.
I have a new Z visa / RP in my passport and numerous expired visas.
So I think a teacher's blacklist is a myth... |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Um |
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| If it is like South Korea then yes there are blacklists but only for a province. So chose a different province. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Blacklist? |
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| phobofanatic wrote: |
| Is there a way to find out if someone has been put on a black list by the PSB? My friend broke her contract and returned home (after a threat by a PSB official that she wouldn't be allowed to return) and would like to know if she will be able to work in China again or not. Thanks! |
Did your friend inform the school that she was leaving or did she leave without a word? Last year we had a teacher who arrived in China and then left within two weeks. He did have a Z visa but it hadn't been converted to a residence permit at the time he left. The school said he would never be allowed to work in the same province again. Don't know if they were talking BS or if its true. |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Blacklist? |
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| therock wrote: |
| phobofanatic wrote: |
| Is there a way to find out if someone has been put on a black list by the PSB? My friend broke her contract and returned home (after a threat by a PSB official that she wouldn't be allowed to return) and would like to know if she will be able to work in China again or not. Thanks! |
Did your friend inform the school that she was leaving or did she leave without a word? Last year we had a teacher who arrived in China and then left within two weeks. He did have a Z visa but it hadn't been converted to a residence permit at the time he left. The school said he would never be allowed to work in the same province again. Don't know if they were talking BS or if its true. |
Dear Rock,
That all depends, truly all depends.
There is a blacklist of sorts maintained by the local Foreign Expert Bureaus. when and if they check it. If they are pushed enough they will make a special postie about the aberrant FT and then that FT will not be issued a FEC in the province again...at least until the memory of his or her malodorous doings fades into oblivion, sardonically speaking of course.
There are workarounds to all of this, of course, and unless the FT has engaged in criminal activity, the PSB generally does not get involved. I was witness to one incident where one FT was terminated (truly with just cause) and driven to the airport within 24 hours to be removed from the PRC. They checked him in, sent him through security and left. He checked himself 'out", bought a ticket for Beijing, landed a job in Beijing, arranged his papers, and has been working there ever since, although his best friend to this day remains Jack Daniels.
So like all things in China, this one falls into a big gray area.
NCL |
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phobofanatic
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, she got in an argument with the private school she quit and the local police refused to renew her visa even though a uni wanted to hire her. The school boss was good friends with the police. I know she doesn't want to go back to that province, I guess she'll just have to try to get a job and see if the Z visa goes through or not? Gotta love it! |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: See Below |
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| phobofanatic wrote: |
| Well, she got in an argument with the private school she quit and the local police refused to renew her visa even though a uni wanted to hire her. The school boss was good friends with the police. I know she doesn't want to go back to that province, I guess she'll just have to try to get a job and see if the Z visa goes through or not? Gotta love it! |
In China the PSB would not take it upon itself to simply refuse as you write. If they refused your friend, it is because she could not present a letter of release, a letter of recommendation, a "quite letter" as the Chinese call it, etc., etc. All school bosses are "good friends" with the police in the eyes of the FT's but in the end it simply comes down to a bureaucratic shuffle. If she wants to stay in the same province and if her complaints were legitimate, and if she were working legally in the country, then she should have filed a complaint with the local Foreign Expert Bureau and/or tried to buy her way out of the contract. |
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DistantRelative
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Can't speak for other locales, but I know of one teacher here in Xi'an who recently got his Visa on a probation type basis. He opted out of his last contract early, and his former employer wrote a "poor" recommendation letter. The result was, when applying for his new Visa with a new employer, he was initially refused. After using some guanxi, his new employer was able to secure a Visa for him, but only for 8 months. Apparently if he does well at his new job then the new employer will be able to get a longer term Visa next time around.
Zhuhao,
Shawn |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: See Below |
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| DistantRelative wrote: |
Can't speak for other locales, but I know of one teacher here in Xi'an who recently got his Visa on a probation type basis. He opted out of his last contract early, and his former employer wrote a "poor" recommendation letter. The result was, when applying for his new Visa with a new employer, he was initially refused. After using some guanxi, his new employer was able to secure a Visa for him, but only for 8 months. Apparently if he does well at his new job then the new employer will be able to get a longer term Visa next time around.
Zhuhao,
Shawn |
Shawn,
There is no such thing as a "probationary" visa in China. Either the PSB will grant a visa or it will not grant a visa. There is a "30-day" get-your-papers-in-order visa, and a "10-day-leave-the-country" visa but there is no such thing as a probationary visa.
Frankly, the school is playing with the guy and it is a control factor. Check it out yourself with the PSB if you don't believe me (I mean the bit about "probationary" visa).
NCL |
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DistantRelative
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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NCL, Sorry if I left you with the impression the Visa was probationary, of course it's not. As far as the FEB is concerned, because of the prior poor recommendation letter, the teacher is on a probation type status. The new employer had to do some serious dancing to get the FEB to approve the teacher, and they would only issue the Visa for 8 months rather than the year that was initially requested. You are right in that it absolutely is a control issue. In this case his future in Xi'an now hinges on his making his new employer happy. Agree?
Zhuhao,
Shawn |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| In this case his future in Xi'an now hinges on his making his new employer happy. Agree? |
It quite probably depends on how much he kowtows to the whims and fancies of the employer and how good and willing he is to play 'the white monkey'.
I doubt if his teaching ability even enters the equation. |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: See Below |
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| DistantRelative wrote: |
NCL, Sorry if I left you with the impression the Visa was probationary, of course it's not. As far as the FEB is concerned, because of the prior poor recommendation letter, the teacher is on a probation type status. The new employer had to do some serious dancing to get the FEB to approve the teacher, and they would only issue the Visa for 8 months rather than the year that was initially requested. You are right in that it absolutely is a control issue. In this case his future in Xi'an now hinges on his making his new employer happy. Agree?
Zhuhao,
Shawn |
Shawn,
Thank you but the FEB doesn't issue the residence permit as I am sure that you know. They might have issued a Foreign Expert Certificate for only an eight-month period but even that strikes me as strange -- the FEB's usually issue and date the FEC to cover the time requested by the employer. The PSB issues a visa based upon the dates submitted and papers provided by the employer. I still think it's the employer that is just trying to control the employee...
NCL |
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