Job Discussion Forums

[Gary B]

Wha'z up?
I find this thread disturbing since my last post mysteriously vanished which emphaisized the fact that I wanted to appologize to Glenski since I mixed up his comments with another person's comments. I just want to state for the record once again that I thought Glenski's comments were logical, analytical, and helpful to the original post. As far as Bnix is concerned, I'd just like to say I don't do drugs, but based on your insults to other people in this field, you certainely seem to need some. You claim you're a professional ESL/EFL instructor, but apparantly you have not been trained in or had an observation class which strongly advocates avoiding value judgements when observing a class. You've judged many of your colleagues in this field and value judgements seem to be your strongest point which by definition would make you a poor ESL/EFL professional. I must admit that I'm lowering myself to your level by responding to your posts, but if I had to bet diamonds to doughnuts, many people would say the same.
Chow for Now,
Would Like To Know What Happened To My Last Post From Motown Gary B.

[Boogie]

I feel like the original poster who seems to think that NA women aren't a good match for him-- my experience is the same with NA men... we just fight constantly and they're never supportive, make me feel like the reason he is having a relationship with me is because he's impressing his friends or following the path that he's supposed to be following. I kind of gave up on NA men because it's a little stressful. I've more or less only dated foreign men for the longest time now... things are going much better- I'm getting everything I've ever wanted in a relationship... so I see where he's coming from.

Oddly enough though I found it strange the whole "housewife"comment because my experiences make me think that it is men who are embarrassed if their wives aren't "working women" and the way NA men are these days- we are expected to pay AT LEAST half of all bills- so being a housewife isn't an option... I do intend to be a stay at home mom... and onto another topic- that's why it's so important to marry a gy with lots of money... because he's going to be footing the bill for the whole family... so answering the whole "good woman" question- you'll probably never find what you seem to be looking for on a teacher's salary. I think you screwed yourself and you may need to reajust your mate-finding glasses.

[Boogie]

I didn't have a chance to read all the posts so excuse me if this is redundant...

But let me warn you about RUSSIAN girls.

They're beautiful yes and maybe some are legit but the way their country and culture is now you should be wary. In Canada I had a Russian exchange student friend and from day one she told me that she was going to find someone to marry so she could stay. She did her homework and read all the laws and found one that really interested her: that if she married a guy who signed the forms to sponser her he would be responsible for her in everyway- especially financially for 10 years. And if he abused her, Canada would let her stay and she could divorce him but he would still be responsible for her bills for those 10 years... BOYS BE WARNED, especially since I've already had some Russian girls here asking me questions about Canada's "marriage + immigration" laws.

The Russian girl--> she did marry the guy, accuse him of physical abuse and now he's screwed.

[Foolsboy]

It�s very nice to see that there are others who aren�t afraid to say how they really feel, and it�s nice to see more people answering my questions rather than just taking swings. Thanks for the support to all of you who have tried to see where I�m coming from and/or stuck up for me and/or given me useful and informative advice, even if you don't all agree with my comments 100%!

P.S. Boogie, do you or can anyone else reading this share any knowledge about the laws in the United States regarding marriage to Russian women or foreign women in general? I hope they�re not as bleak for men as Canada�s! Thanks again.

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello Foolsboy

The website below seems to have all the answers to your questions regarding marriage law with regard to Russian women.

Here's the link: http://www.abc-russian-women.com/abc/how_to_content.htm

Good luck!
keNT

[taiwan boy]

I am coming into this discussion a bit late, but I just want to add my two cents worth. Also I think Glenski's response was spot on the money.

If you want to marry someone from another country you not only need to spend a lot of time getting to know your potential spouse, but also a lot of time getting to know their culture. If you marry someone from your own culture there are so many things that you share in common and misundertandings/problems will arise for personal reasons not cultural ones.

Also meeting a suitable person and having a good relationship in another country does not necessarily mean that you can continue that relationship in the same way in your home country. No matter how much that person loves you he/she just may not be prepared to give up their links to their family/friends and culture. Other cultures have very different ideas about a lot of things and ideas about relationships/family and the role of women in society are particularly strong and difficult to change.

There are other logistical issues to think about. Even if your partner has a high level of education he/she may have difficulty finding work in your home country if their English is not at a high level or their qualifications are not recognised.

[run-jp]

First of all, i gotta agree with taiwan boys observations.
2ndly,Im still single after 5 years in Asia so i am not defending myself here. I know lots of guys who married Japanese. some regretted it, some have a wife n kids and chase skirt on WEs. Some get along great w/ spouses after years of marriage. 1 good friend is a research scientist, athletic, charming guy, always had a gfriend back in the states...but fell in love w/ japanese. they ski and hike together, ideal couple. the point is international marriage (or dating) is what you make of it. some couples got zero goin, zero but that "exotic" attraction. They often divorce in few years. obvious, thst if u have a language gap (often the case) you cant work out your differences,& whadda ya do when sex starts getting routine? The image of Asian girls and non-Aisian guys with their "geisha-cowboy" fantasy world IS pretty sad.

THAT said, I still think the idea of bicultural couples is kinda cool. some US girls Ive totally forgotten but I still remember my charming Polish neighbour (just frineds!) the french girl I hoped to marry, and the japanese women who helped me thru the initial 3 years of sheitty jobs and learning to speak Jpnese. A different dimension is surely added to M/F relations. U R each others teacher, more than partners. Now, some of my favorite music is Gainsbourg/Birkin that girlfriends first played for me. I watched hours of Shinchan videos I couldnt understand w/o one girls help. so, if you 2 are both curious people, you always got something to talk about.

Temporarily back in USA (&not in a cool place like Boston, SD or SF) amid all the flags and 24 hour Troop coverage, i m glad not to talk to the locals much to avoid dull, safe, talk about the "Troops", weather, sports on TV, catholic schools, Wall ST.,blah blah.
TV is unbearably STUPID in US now ( talent contest shows, FOX, endless terror alerts) Americans are really polarized hawk/dove, ecology/Bushism letsbeYuppies/lets -have-kids. iCan you blame a guy for not wanting to put the time in to find a girl he can agree with/live with
/sign a pre-nup with?? lotta guys here as much freedom as Asian salaryman now ...and US women seem to ve gotten noisier/flashier now that stuff like boob jobs are considered normal and thats what they see on
reality shows.
(or do i just hear red-neck women around me now?). Years back i had US girlfriends , but they were multi-cultural much like my foreign GFs the other drawback of meeting women in the US is the car culture. People dont walk down the road to a busy coffee shop (like that show Friends) and see their buddies, maybe bump into people on the street, subway station, etc. This is why singles go to church in US...a cheap chance to scope ! This isnt a judgement on US women, but men and culture, too. Without 70+ TV channels work-out videos, and AOL, most people here would go nuts if forced to read or learn Czech for fun...so its really boredom with mass culture driving some NA's "search"
for mates
To original poster: When you go abroad
you will likely be "smoked and dazed" for a while (in Russia or not), while trying to sort out the desperate or curious women from the sincere. Then finding a match. i hope yu learn languages quick! or watch out. then if you get hitched, where to raise the kids, what if her parents get cancer(she comes back home?) So first , try DATING them , enjoy that. enjoy becoming a real sensei (I hope). Consider a place like Romania, Slovakia, Argent., where the gap isnt so big. ...and when you get a date , get one for Glenski so he has something other to do other than 12 long posts a week
hey SKI! if u stop in Booty, get down y'bad self & tell Seb and Marco "Asobu Ganba,ne" --good hunting to all! (F and M!)

[dan]

foolsboy
i agree with with both glenski and taiwan boy about relationship issues leaning more towards the cultural rift as opposed to personal ones. and quite frankly, i've come to prefer it that way. yes, it can make your life, at times, very frustrating, complicated and confusing, but if you keep a good attitude, this issues can also keep you stimulated and flexible. boredom - the real relationship killer in my book - wont surface as quickly as it tends to when dating within your own culture. futhermore, you will not only learn a lot about your partner in working these problems out, but also about an entire group of people. take advantage of these cultural gulfs! it will make you life a lot more interesting.

and hats off to all of you who spoke your own truths on this forum. the guy asked an honest question, and thankfully some of you gave forthright answers. and for those self-righteous few that criticized him: go watch Opera, campaign for your favorite GOPer, read books by George Will or do whatever it is that you do to feel morally superior. if foolsday wanted some self-help, im sure he wouldve asked for it.

China has nice girls. So does Korea and Japan. Lots of other places, too im sure. stay away from milwaukee, wisconsin unless if you like them fat and drunk. and then the flood gates opened....

[bnix]

Little Horsey states in his post"You have to know teaching isn't the only reason for getting into this profession(TESOL)"Well,obviously,a lot of people go into this profession and are only marginally interested (if at all) in teaching.That does not make it right.I have been in this field long enough to know I will not change that situation.And people's morals are their own business....but when they start posting on a public forum and trying to promulgate their lax morals as a reason to go into teaching...well,that is something else.

And "doors"? He calls me a "holier than-thou -street cleaner"(????).Actually,guy,hate to disappoint ya,but I am fully qualified...and I have never cleaned streets. And what kind of an insult is that anyway?"HOLIER-THAN-THOU-STREET CLEANER?Can't ya even come up with a better,more creative insult than that? I mean,really,now "doors"...I think maybe you are pretty unhappy because you know what I have been saying is true and it really hit a nerve so you do not want to admit it?But HOLIER THAN THOU STREET CLEANER?C'mon,man,that is not even a GOOD INSULT! I laughed so hard,I nearly spilled my coffee.
The riff raff...the flotsam and the jetsam.You know who you are....if the shoe fits....wear it...

[sublimehusker]

Foolsboy, you pose a hard question for any bachelor to answer. Now I have lots of experience dating American women from rural to urban types, as do a lot of bachelors and divorced people like myself do in this country. To find a Man who has dated multiple women from multiple cultures would either have to be Warren beatty with a lot of money to travel, in the miltary, or an EFL bachelor who has been in this business for 10 plus years, either of which i am not, In fact Im still considering getting started in the EFL business myself. My opinion is that there are many great women in North America, you just have to date more of them, Ive had women that would bend over backward to make me happy, but ultimately thats not what I want. I only know that I havent found her yet, but I dont attribute that to my country, Im just picky and am not getting married again till I find that very special lady, Ill keep watching this post, because I too am interested in hearing from some perennial bachelor who has dated women from multiple countries, even if its a generalized statement as every statement anyone makes is to them and their experiences, I thought it was funny how all these people jumped on you and try to appear holier than thou on this issue. I think people have that viceral reaction because of a few of the staements you made and labeled you a macho pig, but I know where your coming from so you wont get that from me. Good luck in finding more out besides One comment I read, I dont see where youve gotten any answers on how intercultural relationships are, maybe in ten years after Ive been to every country I want to visit Ill have an answer for you, I hope I dont becaiuse being a bachelor that long is not what I want but who knows in this wacky world, Good luck!

[Brooks]

Sometimes there are cultural problems in international relationships, but sometimes they are just about different personalities.
In the end it comes down to chemistry, shared values, and good communication.
I have lived in four countries (besides the US), so there are some things I have noticed.
I haven`t dated an American woman in years. I thought it was weird, but this is my sixth year abroad.
I don`t think American women are as terrible as some American guys think, nor do I have an Asian fetish that some foreign guys have (I live in Japan).

When I compare women from non-anglophone countries, to American women, I see how much easier it is to communicate to American women.
And that is the base of any relationship. So when you go abroad, the women you know are the ones you can talk to.

So here goes:

Morocco - the big problem is about religion. I guess it depends how serious or devout the Moroccan woman is. And it depends how flexible the non-Muslim man is.
Here is an example. I am at the home of a Moroccan woman. We were dating, and I was eating dinner there. I met her sister and brother. But I didn`t meet her mother because she was in the kitchen (her father is dead). And I never met her mother. I think I would have met her if I had proposed to her daughter.

Russia - well there certainly are attractive Russian women. But salaries in Russia aren`t high. I liked living in Siberia but I don`t want to make $200 a month. Sure, lots of Russian women want to leave, but what will they do if they came to the US?
I met an unemployed Russian architect in Vermont. I used to help her with English for free. Life was hard for her.

Japan - definite cultural differences. I don`t like the way that lying is acceptable. It really bothers me. There can be problems. One problem I have is that I can`t see myself living here long term. Some Japanese women don`t mind living outside Japan, but some do.
I am just too American to fit in, and I don`t want to anyway.
I felt like I had to be an actor here, and I found it tiring. I get sick of tatemae/honne. I don`t feel like I can be myself here.

Poland - well, some Polish women marry foreign men, but not many.
There are some hurdles in Poland, but I can be myself.
1. Religion. If you are Catholic, it makes things easier. I don`t know Poles that converted to Protestantism.
2. Language. Have to learn Polish. Yes, it is hard (especially grammar), but that is just the way it is. Poles appreciate it when you speak Polish.
3. Culture and society. There are annoying things, but keep it to yourself.
Poland is traditional, sometimes too much for me.
Poles don`t like it when you complain about Poland, but they will complain about their own country.
4. Not all Poles want to live in the US, UK, etc. So, how much do you want to live in Poland? Do you mind taking a pay cut?
5. A Polish man from Warsaw told me this: in Poland, the woman is a sadist, and the man is a masochist.
It is a generalization. I can`t say it is true in every case.

Brooks

[run-jp]

Another good read from Brooks ...who seems to have the record of real jobs in the most countries. My stay in Morroco was ,sadly, so short, i cant say much. But for japan, I will say if you look around, you'll find some cool folks.
The guy i mentioned with the strong marriage worked at a Uni, meeting the Northern elite. He always told me "Jpnese r so well informed!" My experience was not that. they are more or less spoon fed ideas, but many have great characters and are very giving.
Example: If you hitchhike ( i just waited 10-20 mins mostly) someone will stop and go out f their way to help you (you may get lodged that nite!)
Sure, they are kings of the White Lie. they ll tell you they like all things that you like. It's the culture. And the more pop-stylish the woman, the more chance she cant teach you the lingo, or open you to the japan outside her pop world.
Try activity clubs. Brooks maybe knew the Hash HH in Morroco, there are some in japanese cities. me being a runner helped me meet genuine folks...and was a great excuse to avoid late drinking sessions ..."Oh gosh! in the morning I gotta..." If you really are against booze, they can understand, too. As Brooks said 'bout Poland and speaking Pol., in JP it is best to speak JP, but grammar is easy. writing is work.
i think as the economy stagnates on, many women really look abroad for a future. ...so some guys ll resent you for "pulling females".
One thing I liked was how easy it was to equal locals knowledge of J-history ad culture. Most J's do a brain dump of what history they learned in school (and 1915-1940 is glossed over!) I always chuckled inside when a gaijin could say more about i.e. buddhist traidtions or such than J-folks. so, Careful asking about written characters. People who use PCs now forget how to hand write many!
One point is - - foreigners can and DO help preserve native culture at times. So marrying one isnt really "diluting" the culture. I found myself telling teens "that word you just said ISNT jpnese!!" (Nihongo is deformed for sure recently, from within)
a US guy back from China says that "the truth" in folks day to day life is more routinely bludgeoned...lying is socially normal there (Im told)

but the Moroccan character is hard to pin down, I saw. A single native freind used my flat for a "rendez-vous " once. There is some night life ,
mistress parties (for the rich). markets that sell wine/beer. (I hope the hash run group continues in Rabat) the women I met seemed interested in NAs (CND/US) as life mates(??) and the fact that some are TRIlingual now (Fr/Eng/Arabic) is an asset for a woman, for sure.

comparing cultures, I am now curious (though off topic) how the Pol's explain their Popes "bustin" on "Iraqi Freedom" and the government
proudly sending commandos and snapping photos...sorry, no women in sight there, besides Iraqi.

[Brooks]

hash in Morocco?
Just heard horror stories about Moroccan jails. No thanks.

I was recently on vacation in Germany and the police don`t care what people smoke in their homes, as long as they don`t sell drugs. Strange. If someone smokes dope, they will buy it from somewhere.
I saw a guy smoking crack at the Frankfurt train station. Right there on the platform. There is also a drug room at the station where people can use what they like.

My Moroccan girlfriend was conservative. Some women there are liberal.

Brooks

[reality]

One Mans beauty is another Mans beast.

[bnix]

Maybe Dave should start a Lonely Hearts Forum for all of those people who came overseas ostensibly to teach,but really to"find a good woman".