Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

What percentage of FTs in your country are non-native English speakers ?
I had thought that the most basic requirement in ESL/EFL were:
A degree, TEFL cert and a L1 speaker of English.

If you pop over to the "China Job Board" you'll see that China has a significant number of non-native English speakers. I'm running a "Poll" and the percentages of those responding is ...(shockingly?)..high for L2 English teachers.

I had read that Indonesia for example, exclude even the Irish from applying for FT jobs...Continental Europe biased towards UK English...Was that long ago, and now things have changed ?
I've worked with L2 speakers of English who'd be Band 8-9(IELTS) making the same money as Band 5-6...?

[Glenski]

In Japan, there are many routes to being an EFL teacher.

Most are native English speakers, but you don't have to be.

A degree is usually what people hold, but there are common ways for people to get around that. Holding a spouse visa is the most common. No degree needed. Another is working holiday visa.

TEFL certificate? Not needed.

Sorry, but I don't think there is any way people could tell you how many FTers are native vs. non-native English speakers. Rough estimate on my part would be 90% vs. 10%, respectively.

[Kootvela]

I think the percentage might be as high as 70% to 30% native and non-native speakers respectively. Leaving out China for it's size and population, the rest of the world surely cannot be filled with too many native speakers (taking into consideration visa requirements, for example: some say a native speaker, some say EU passport, some say a degree). Besides, many people study English as a foreign language for teaching/translating purposes in their home countries that are not English-speaking countries.

[Madame J]

As long as one is fluent in English, surely it does not matter if they are a native speaker? In fact, I'd imagine that being an L2 English speaker can be advantageous in some respects. Unlike L1 speakers who simply acquired the language naturally, L2 teachers have first hand experience of the difficulties of learning English and as such, I'd imagine, would be far better equipped to explain various complex aspects of the language.

[Kootvela]

Few would argue with that, Madame J. The problem is that some school hire native speakers regardless of their qualifications because students expect native speakers to be better than non-native speakers. It's a marketing tool. Surely, I give the credit to those experienced and trained native speakers teachers! We have had a long and painful discussion on this board who makes a better teacher but I think it was locked due to confrontations.

[Madame J]

[william wallace]

I thought it was tacit...however..
Roughly 10% of the L2 English teachers I've come across (15 years between China and Thailand,excluding Philippines as it is not really the typical market) would be in the Band 8-9(IELTS), and about 65% are in the 6-7 Band range,and 25% lower than Band 6.
Those 10% are a shinning example, and quite possibly could share the know how and fortitude necessary to benefit foreign learners of English.
Those Band 6 and lower L2 English teachers represent just how seedy ESL actually is.
Many people teaching in ESL haven't a clue between systematic and non-systematic errors.
She is coming their. Systematic error(both Their" and "there" share approximate pronunciation)
She coming there.( NON-systematic absence of verb;meaning L1 English speakers do not drop the verb...Ebonics included)

What makes a better teacher IS off the topic,and is of little value as we could throw that out to doctors,lawyers, politicians and darn well anyone...friends?

[denise]

I don't know the exact percentages, but in my current job and my previous two jobs there are/were several non-native speakers. How did they get the jobs? They're qualified teachers.

d

[spiral78]

I teach at a university that is officially 'international,' meaning that a sufficient level of English must be spoken by all admin staff across all faculties (though the uni is not in a country where English is the predominant language). About fifty percent of all courses in all faculties are taught only in English.

About thirty percent of our English language teachers are non-native speakers. A few teach high-level courses, but most specialize in those courses where the learners can really benefit from their expertise in how English works.

The higher level learners don't just prefer native speakers - they need the understanding of nuances and cultural connections that they can get from native speakers. And we make an effort to convey those things as a highly legitimate part of a course.

There is clearly a strong need for both non-native and native-speaking teachers. We don't compete (at least not at our uni), but our skills and experience are complementary, encompassing the needs of the whole range of our learners.

[naturegirl321]

Very few here in Peru, but you do get the ocassional person from Holland or Germany. BUt usually they'd rather get the higher paying jobs, than teach English.

[william wallace]

Dear Spiral,
That is very true, unfortunately with the Bands 4-6/7 I think they're at the wrong end of the classroom, and unknowingly sending the wrong message.I find those within these bands also are impeded in the very same way that their native English teachers are- by an over-reliance on the students native language.

The students are required to provide "official" confirmation of language level, such as iBT TOEFL, IELTS, PET to enter colleges, universities and emmigration...so why shouldn't it be similar for L2 English teachers ? Isn't this a double-standard ?

[denise]

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

In Japan the jobs for 'native English teachers' are based on your passport. So there are more than a few L1 French speakers from Canada as well as from the many 'Little [Country Name]' areas in Toronto and probably other big cities as well here. So if some guy speaks sort of okay English (but would probably benefit from some EAP classes) but has a university degree from a Canadian university and a Canadian passport, then he's good to go.

[william wallace]

Dear Gambatebing...,
Thanks, you see where I'm going with this,and I figured as much.Though I think China is a green-light for anyone not from the tradition ESL English speaking countries to either get a foot in the country or escape lower wages in their country.

A school called ABC, which is fairly big in Beijing(low wages,and lower if fat, old,ugly, poor English...) has about 35-45 % non L1 English teachers;I think that beats most major ESL markets.

[Justin Trullinger]