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Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The short answer is look for another job.

That they bring you on a business visit visa is already a red flag (it's illegal and westerners have been jailed and deported for working on a business visa thought that is not normal). That the company has had the visa refused twice by the MOFA means the Ministry is probably aware the company intends to abuse the system. It's quite possible the visa will never be issued at all.

And if it is how are they going to convert it to a work visa? They need a work visa granted and that can take time if they haven't got one already (they have to advertise the job in the local press and then report there are no Saudis qualified to take the job after a certain period of time. And once it's granted it can still take ages and a return to your home country for two months while you go through the paperwork of applying (if the company has wasta you can apply through Bahrain, but it is clear your company doesn't have wasta).

psouthan · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 7

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

A business visa is intended for visiting businessmen. It is NOT intended for people who are going to come and work in KSA.

trapezius · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:38 am Post subject:

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:

Sometimes the institutions who bring teachers in on business visas are indeed dodgy, but this is not neccessarily the case. Getting a residence visa can be a very long and tedious process, particularly during Eid/Ramadhan, when Saudi embassies will either be shut or operating on a much reduced schedule. So, if the employer needs you now, he has little option other than to get you in on a business visa.

Once you get into KSA, a reputable employer will do all he can to get a residence visa for you asap. However, it is the case that some employers do not do this, and simply have the business visa renewed again and again for the duration of the teacher's stay in KSA. This is not good at all, because, as trapezius says, without a residence visa you cannot get an Iqama (residence permit) and all that implies. So you need to ask some very specific questions of your employer, and get assurances in writing that a residence visa will be obtained for you within weeks of your arrival. If these assurances are not forthcoming, ask yourself if you really want to spend a year or two in KSA without a bank account, telephone, car etc etc.

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

What the previous posters say is true. Furthermore, the distinction between business visas and work visas is similar worldwide. In the U.S., as it no doubt is in Saudi, using one type of visa to enter, only to use it for other purposes, or even to change it legally to another type of visa, is considered an abuse of the original visa. (That is, US consular officers are loath to issue a business visa, for example, if they suspect it would be used to convert to a work visa, even if it is legal to apply for that change once inside the country. The same holds true, as far as I know, pretty much around the world.)

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I would say that the only employer that I would recommend who resorts to the business visa stratagem is PMU. I would have reservations about the others - including the like of Al Falak.

Having said that I remember times when I really needed a job in KSA and would have accepted things that today make me shudder !

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

It is true that many disreputable employers in KSA get people in on business visas, but it is not by any means true that every employer who uses the Biz Viz is a crook. As Cleopatra says, it is often used as an expedient means of getting you into the kingdom to start work. Many employers, especially educational institutions, need people such as teachers on or as close as possible to a given date, i.e. start of term, and if work visas are not ready, then a business visa will do the trick. The difference is that a decent employer will start the work visa process as soon as reasonably possible and not leave you dangling on a business visa indefinitely.

Maybe the US doesn't like to allow people in on one visa if they know it is later to be converted. However, KSA is not the USA and things are done very differently indeed by the Saudis. In many cases, where a single employer is suddenly applying for business visas at the same time, such as a university at the beginning of term, it is patently obvious why and the visas are granted as a matter of expediency. What the Min of Foreign Affairs does NOT like, understandably, is where disreputable employers continue to use and therefore by definition, abuse the system. If you are still in KSA on a Biz Viz after a year or more, maybe then it is time to be concerned.

In a nutshell, in order to judge an employer's credentials, you must look at factors other than the type of visa initially on offer.

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:

AFTER A YEAR OR SO!?? Christ...after a month or two!!!

NCTBA Exclamation

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Words of Wısdom from Monsıeur Jones - as usual.

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:

Hear, hear! A year or more!?? Blimey!!!

NCTBA

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

No, no, no, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..................!!

Perhaps I should clarify. When I said 'a year' I meant that as an exaggeration. Of course a year is far too long; a business visa lasts for three months, and this, in the case of a reputable employer, is usually enough to sort out any work-visa delays. As a worst-case scenario, that 3-month visa can be extended for up to another three. That is certainly enough time to sort out issues.

However, while I take Stephen Jones' point, I would say that it does often happen that institutions, despite the best laid plans of administrators and men, do NOT have work visas ready and, in such a case, the biz viz gets you in quickly if needs be. There is also another possible scenario: we all know how long a work visa can take. If someone is hired at a late stage and is needed quickly onsite, with not enough time to go thru the work visa process, the biz viz may make some sense. Of course, the employee must leave the country at a later time to get a work visa in any case so yes, it should be a last resort.

Without a work visa, no Iqama; no Iqama, no driving licence (although you can use your own country's licence to hire but not to buy), bank account or telephone subscription (pre-pay can be used, of course). Also, on a business visa, your existence is indeed precarious and usually, you must leave the country every 28 days - in some cases every 14 days - and then return, in order to keep it valid.

When you reach the end of the 3-months, you can get it extended but at that point, if it is a multi-visa you lose the 'multi' status and once you leave you need a new visa to return. I am given to understand that the authorities, while having no problem with the once-off granting of a visa, are now loathe to keep handing them out in succession to the same person. So, if you enter on a biz viz, chances are your employer will have to get you a work visa within, at the absolute most, six months anyway.

In a nutshell, the business visa should only ever be an interim solution to a temporary problem to be sorted in the short term!

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124