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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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 Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by redeyes on Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| So -- what should one do if one is actually well informed regarding those "causes" that Muslims care about -- and what should one do if one agrees with them 100%? |
In that case you can nod meaningfully and perhaps feel a bit more relaxed when the students ask you "So what do you think, Miss/Sir?"
However, I completely agree with you that we as teachers always need to remind ourselves why we are in the classroom - which is, of course, to teach English. So, at the end of the day, what we think about Palestine or Iraq is beside the point. Our students are there to learn English, so any discussion (be it about politics or food or whatever) is a means to an end.
BTW someone has correctly informed me that I posted my last post on the wrong thread, and it was actually related to a discussion in the thread below. Oh well, I suppose it's too late now.... |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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It may differ somewhat in Saudi where I have never taught, but I found that once a class got to know you, they wanted to know what you thought on current events. As an American, you also get confronted with pointed questions on US activities. Without being terribly specific, I made it clear that my government had very unwisely never consulted me... and that even though I was in Washington DC each summer, they never even invited me for tea. Humor is always good to turn things away from the hotter subjects.
On less touchy subjects, I would answer questions and then turn the questions back on them... best to let them do the talking. If it led to some unusual topics - and they have some very strange ideas. I loved the arrival of the internet and I could send them off to the net to see what they could find supporting and denying their 'facts.' Like when a student informed me with confidence that 90% of the population of America is Jewish. 
Outside the classroom was where the more spirited and wide-ranging discussions took place on politics.
VS |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Without being terribly specific, I made it clear that my government had very unwisely never consulted me... and that even though I was in Washington DC each summer, they never even invited me for tea. Humor is always good to turn things away from the hotter subjects. |
Well, why should Uncle Sam consult or invite you for a tea?
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| I loved the arrival of the internet and I could send them off to the net to see what they could find supporting and denying their 'facts.' |
Well, in the magic kingdom, the students will return back to you and say "Ustada VS, the internet is not working, the web site is blocked, and we get the following message "ACCESS DENIED!!"!".
So, what will you say to them? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
Well, why should Uncle Sam consult or invite you for a tea?
Well, in the magic kingdom, the students will return back to you and say "Ustada VS, the internet is not working, the web site is blocked, and we get the following message "ACCESS DENIED!!"!".
So, what will you say to them? |
I pay his salary... he should have some manners...
And I never allowed my students to be lazy or to whine... unless they wanted to fail.
VS |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| 007 wrote: |
Well, why should Uncle Sam consult or invite you for a tea?
Well, in the magic kingdom, the students will return back to you and say "Ustada VS, the internet is not working, the web site is blocked, and we get the following message "ACCESS DENIED!!"!".
So, what will you say to them? |
I pay his salary... he should have some manners...VS |
Well, it seems Uncle Sam is not happy with the salary of $200,000 (Tax free!), that's why he is not showing any manners.
Uncle Sam wants his salary to be rised at least to $120 Million like the salary of the CEO of Lockheed Martin!!!
BTW, when Uncle Sam was running his father's oil company, his salary was around $14 million a year!!!
I did not know that Uncle Sam is poorer than Uncle Bandar! |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by redeyes on Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| redeyes wrote: |
So -- being ignorant about Palestine and Iraq could land teacher in hot water -- but equally so, teacher being well informed and AGREEING with their student's anti Western foreign policy sentiments could also be seen as provocative , and even worse, possibly rabble rousing!
Yikes -- the mind boggles.....what is that old phrase? Damned if you do, damned if you don't..... |
It may be interesting to debate this topic here on Dave's regarding what you think should or should not be discussed in a Saudi classroom, which is fine and dandy as a theoretic discussion goes...however the reality that one faces in the classroom is quite different.
To put it bluntly...you just do not discuss politics and religion with your students in the classroom; no matter how much you or the students may want to or try to encourage you to do so...to do so will inevitably send you packing and on the next flight home! If you don't believe this then by all means give it a try and see how far you can take such discussions, but don't say you weren't warned  |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: It's been interesting... |
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Ya know, it's been interesting watching this thread go on and on with some very good exchanges... So, why don't people why don't want to go through SaudiCom (They still call it that, don't they?) just "tunnel" your way out of their proxy server and be unfettered in you travels around the Internet?
Jes' wonderin'...
NCTBA |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| MyTrunkshow wrote: |
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| former Orbit subscriber |
and . . . |
...present Showtime Arabia subscriber?
NCTBA  |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by redeyes on Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Agree with brasscat that Saudi politics is a no-go area for classroom discussion. You don't have to be so cautious with international or even regional politics so long as you steer clear from any Saudi angle. Many Saudis are quite interested in international affairs, albeit on an often superficial level. So you should expect things like the US election to come up for discussion in class. That's fine, but as I've said, you're better off letting the students do the talking while not getting too involved yourself. |
Here a nifty back and forth I had with a Saudi Air Force captain in class:(And, yes, Scotty, it actually DID happen to me!)
Clueless: Teacher, you American, right?
Me: Um...yeah.
Clueless: America democratic and Saudi a kingdom, yes? (Doing this whilst holding out his hands like he was balancing two objects trying to guess their weights.)
Me: (Nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room fulla rocking chairs about what the he_ _ was going ot come outta his mouth next.) Ah...yeah.
Clueless: (Cutting to the chase!) Which one better?
Me: (Painfully rolling my eyes to the back of my head) Captain Abdullah, have you seen me walking into doors recently or drooling excessively?
Clueless: (Suspiciously and getting mad) What mean "drool"?
Me: That's it captain...go see the training wing colonel and report that you were starting to engage in political discussions.
Clueless: (Suddenly very friendly, smiling, and facing a linguistic tsunami) No, no, teacher. I only joke.
Moral of the story: Nothing much other than it can sometimes be very dangerous to even respond to the opening salvo of a self-uninitiated conversation with Saudis. Most have an over-inflated sense of self compounded the belief that you are STILL BEING PAID WAY TO MUCH TO BE GUESTS OF THE KINGDOM!!!
NCTBA
Last edited by Never Ceased To Be Amazed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Another thing to be aware of is, of course, the fact that your students' knowledge of English is limited (possibly very limited indeed) and so the potential for genuine - and possibly problemetic - misunderstanding is huge. You would think that English teachers would be very conscious of this, but it seems that this is not neccessarily the case. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: What we have here is a failure to communicate. |
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Dear Cleopatra,
" . . . the potential for genuine - and possibly problemetic - misunderstanding is huge. You would think that English teachers would be very conscious of this, but it seems that this is not neccessarily the case."
A situation not unknown on these very forums, as well.
Regards,
John |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
It may be interesting to debate this topic here on Dave's regarding what you think should or should not be discussed in a Saudi classroom, which is fine and dandy as a theoretic discussion goes...however the reality that one faces in the classroom is quite different.
To put it bluntly...you just do not discuss politics and religion with your students in the classroom; no matter how much you or the students may want to or try to encourage you to do so...to do so will inevitably send you packing and on the next flight home! If you don't believe this then by all means give it a try and see how far you can take such discussions, but don't say you weren't warned |
Yes, indeed. I don't know what kind of institution Redeyes expects to work in but if it's a military one he may find that the STUDENTS are forbidden by their superiors to raise politics or religion in class.
In any case, few Saudi students would have the English level to debate the topics that appear to interest Redeyes, even if they wanted to. (BTW, I'm not saying that those topics are uninteresting)
I'd also say that even in a western democracy like Spain I am wary of raising these matters. Why should KSA be different? |
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