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Caliroll
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 23
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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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hi charlie123,
as others have said, it's not so easy to find a uni position here but that shouldn't stop you from applying. one thing to consider is an MA in English and three years uni teaching experience just meet minimum requirements for some of the capped contract positions.
from what you said about your current position you'd be hard pressed to find something similar here.
have a close look at the links another poster provided, especially the jrecin site to get a good idea of what unis want. if you feel you meet the requirements (a decision ultimately up to you, not strangers from a message board) then start applying. my advice, for what it's worth, apply to as many positions as possible and see what happens.
all the best and happy hunting |
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Chris_Travel_the_world
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I rarely post, but feel that I must chime in. First off, it looks like you have a huge case of the "grass is always greener..." variety. Let me tell you, it's probably not. I can tell you for a fact, that you will not find a job comparable to the one you have in Korea, no way, no how. You won't get the same money for hours/benefits/cost of living that you are enjoying now.
If you just want to come to Japan to teach, enjoy Japan, see the sites, meet the women, play some video games, read some comics, etc. Go right ahead. I love living in Japan, it's really fun and exciting. And the food is excellent.
Like people have posted before, Japanese language ability is really important. If you don't have 2 kyu...good luck. Also, jobs seem to be much more competitive in Japan than in Korea. I have a friend who is highly qualified (p.h.d., Japanese language ability, young, etc..) but is only working yearly positions for low pay.
Don't mean to be a downer, but you should have a realistic view the situation. Listen to the G-man, he's an expert on Japan. Go ahead and apply for jobs here, what have ya got to lose? Just make sure to keep your job in Korea until you secure something.
Peace and happy hunting,
Chris |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Professionally, I have no expectation that the grass is always greener. Culturally, I am certain that it is. I am hoping to take the smallest hit possible in terms of renumeration and get out of a slightly dreary social situation.
In the U.S., good uni gigs are also tough to come by and they also try to marginalize staff with part time, no insurance type gigs, making it necessary for instructors to patch together part timers in order to make a living.
So if the Uni's are tough, where is the sweet spot? In Korea, the greatest overall job satisfaction is probably the public schools. Teachers are treated well not because of any love of English teachers, but because the government needs a lot of them and they know if they crap on the English teachers, their supply will dry up.
Where is the highest average job satisfaction in Japan? Best treatment; Best hours; best housing; least crap?
| Chris_Travel_the_world wrote: |
I rarely post, but feel that I must chime in. First off, it looks like you have a huge case of the "grass is always greener..." variety. Let me tell you, it's probably not. I can tell you for a fact, that you will not find a job comparable to the one you have in Korea, no way, no how. You won't get the same money for hours/benefits/cost of living that you are enjoying now.
If you just want to come to Japan to teach, enjoy Japan, see the sites, meet the women, play some video games, read some comics, etc. Go right ahead. I love living in Japan, it's really fun and exciting. And the food is excellent.
Like people have posted before, Japanese language ability is really important. If you don't have 2 kyu...good luck. Also, jobs seem to be much more competitive in Japan than in Korea. I have a friend who is highly qualified (p.h.d., Japanese language ability, young, etc..) but is only working yearly positions for low pay.
Don't mean to be a downer, but you should have a realistic view the situation. Listen to the G-man, he's an expert on Japan. Go ahead and apply for jobs here, what have ya got to lose? Just make sure to keep your job in Korea until you secure something.
Peace and happy hunting,
Chris |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Professionally, I have no expectation that the grass is always greener. Culturally, I am certain that it is. |
Again, without having been here, how can you say that with such certainty? In any case, it boils down to a personal matter with regard to culture.
| Quote: |
| I am hoping to take the smallest hit possible in terms of renumeration[sic] and get out of a slightly dreary social situation. |
I don't know the previous exchange rates with yen and won, but I can tell you the average starting salaries. I think there is something else to bear in mind here. If memory serves, many people working in Korea boast of the luxury of having their housing paid for. Definitely not so in Japan! Also, I don't know what you plan to do about insurance, but here it can be fairly pricey (20,000-40,000 yen/month depending on circumstances).
| Quote: |
| So if the Uni's are tough, where is the sweet spot? In Korea, the greatest overall job satisfaction is probably the public schools. |
For an image of public schools, do a search on the term "classroom chaos". Besides, getting into public schools usually means being an ALT, not a full-fledged teacher. ALTs come in 2 basic varieties: JET programme and dispatch agencies. The former has a limited lifespan of 3 years (usually), and you must interview in your home country. The process takes a long time (November to August). The latter do not have good reputations; dispatch agencies have been known to work without licenses, making them illegal, yet the government looks the other way. Moreover, they have been known to treat their employees like less than meat. My advice is to avoid them, but if someone here has any good experience, then I'd like to hear it in detail.
| Quote: |
| Where is the highest average job satisfaction in Japan? Best treatment; Best hours; best housing; least crap? |
That is a highly individual question, and you are going to get highly individual answers.
Some possible replies to expect (and caveats):
1. University tenure.................. but those are extremely rare.
2. Have your own business........ vacations mean no pay. Drumming up business itself is a full-time job. The financial investment can be daunting, as can doing your own taxes.
3. Business English through an agency........ usually a teacher needs certain business experience to serve the needs of the clients, and you may be asked to travel often to the sites.
4. String together part-time work...... visa issues, traveling to many places, constantly keeping an eye out for work if one PT job folds, no security, etc. |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Business English through an agent is my best bet. I have worked as a financial advisor for two large multinational financial firms; one's a household word, and I have a number of relevant licenses and other professional designations in financial services.
How do I go about finding a business English agent?
| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Professionally, I have no expectation that the grass is always greener. Culturally, I am certain that it is. |
Again, without having been here, how can you say that with such certainty? In any case, it boils down to a personal matter with regard to culture.
| Quote: |
| I am hoping to take the smallest hit possible in terms of renumeration[sic] and get out of a slightly dreary social situation. |
I don't know the previous exchange rates with yen and won, but I can tell you the average starting salaries. I think there is something else to bear in mind here. If memory serves, many people working in Korea boast of the luxury of having their housing paid for. Definitely not so in Japan! Also, I don't know what you plan to do about insurance, but here it can be fairly pricey (20,000-40,000 yen/month depending on circumstances).
| Quote: |
| So if the Uni's are tough, where is the sweet spot? In Korea, the greatest overall job satisfaction is probably the public schools. |
For an image of public schools, do a search on the term "classroom chaos". Besides, getting into public schools usually means being an ALT, not a full-fledged teacher. ALTs come in 2 basic varieties: JET programme and dispatch agencies. The former has a limited lifespan of 3 years (usually), and you must interview in your home country. The process takes a long time (November to August). The latter do not have good reputations; dispatch agencies have been known to work without licenses, making them illegal, yet the government looks the other way. Moreover, they have been known to treat their employees like less than meat. My advice is to avoid them, but if someone here has any good experience, then I'd like to hear it in detail.
| Quote: |
| Where is the highest average job satisfaction in Japan? Best treatment; Best hours; best housing; least crap? |
That is a highly individual question, and you are going to get highly individual answers.
Some possible replies to expect (and caveats):
1. University tenure.................. but those are extremely rare.
2. Have your own business........ vacations mean no pay. Drumming up business itself is a full-time job. The financial investment can be daunting, as can doing your own taxes.
3. Business English through an agency........ usually a teacher needs certain business experience to serve the needs of the clients, and you may be asked to travel often to the sites.
4. String together part-time work...... visa issues, traveling to many places, constantly keeping an eye out for work if one PT job folds, no security, etc. |
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saloc
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Where is the highest average job satisfaction in Japan? Best treatment; Best hours; best housing; least crap? |
That is a highly individual question, and you are going to get highly individual answers.
Some possible replies to expect (and caveats):
1. University tenure.................. but those are extremely rare.
2. Have your own business........ vacations mean no pay. Drumming up business itself is a full-time job. The financial investment can be daunting, as can doing your own taxes.
[/quote][/quote]
While I would say that having your own business is, for me, the most satisfying, I would also say that it is not very probable for someone just arriving in Japan. And although I realize Glenski wasn't suggesting for a second that it was, I disagree with the 'vacations mean no pay' part. I've seen that written many times on forums but there is no reason why it should be. I've been in business myself for over five years now, and have taken vacations every one of those years, all of which have been paid. I know several other self-employed people and they do this too.
The tax, too, is not at all difficult (in the first couple of years, anyway) largely because you can take the information down to city hall and they will do most of the work for you.
Sorry, not wanting to derail this thread, but felt it important to let people know that working for yourself shouldn't mean sacrificing paid vacations. |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
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| 50 million won/year calculates to about 3.8 million yen. Peanuts. JET ALTs make almost that, and a decent HS job here will also give you that much. |
Perhaps at current exchange rates, but 12 months ago 50 million won was worth considerably more in yen, and rates may well return to nearer previous levels. |
Absolutely right. Even 6 months ago it was worth considerably more. Until about springtime this year the won had been very high and the yen very low, and recently both have gone unusually far the other way at the same time. But this will likely stabilise in the future - certainly the Japanese govt will want it to. Anyway, exchange rates only mean anything if you're changing money at that time.
To say 50million won is equivalent to peanuts in Japan is very misleading. People in entry level jobs in Korea nearly always save more and have more to spend than their equivalents in Japan, and 50 million is around double an entry level position in Korea. So to be similarly well off in Japan, speaking as someone with a good idea of expenses in both countries, I'd say you'd need to be getting close to Y600,000 a month. Good luck with that, OP, I'd agree with glenski's evaluation of the chances of landing something paying you that much.
If you're not concerned by the fact that you'll almost certainly be financially much worse off and probably have considerably shorter vacation time too, then just go for it. Plenty of people do indeed like living in Japan more than they did in Korea. Be warned though, there are also plenty who were convinced that Japan must be a 'cooler' place to be - after all it does have a hugely 'cooler' international image - and yet found that the things that pissed them off in Korea were exactly the same in Japan, quite often the very things you mentioned.
But good luck whatever you do. |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Judging by the posters in this thread, Japan is definitely cooler, at least in terms of expat crowd. Take a look at the Korea forums. Any given thread in the general discussion is filled with 3/5 psychotic hatemongers.
Anyway, some extremely helpful info here. Warmy appreciated 
I'm zeroing in on business English since I can put a strong resume together for that field. Does anyone know the best way top proceed? Glenski suggested going through an agent. How do I find one? Are there alternatives, such as contacting companies directly? Anybody done business ESL in Japan? How is the pay/benefits compared to other gigs? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Charlie,
Re: business English
I meant get hired by a company that teaches in-house classes and that farms out teachers to its clients. If that's what you mean by agent, ok.
Do a search on gaijinpot.com for what others (including me) have listed.
From the FAQ sticky here:
BUSINESS ENGLISH OPPORTUNITIES
AIT http://english.itp.ne.jp/bj/web/1140129300/std/1140129300.htm
Many foreign languages taught, as in-house or corporate lessons.
English Language Education Council (ELEC) http://www.elec.or.jp/
Japanese site, but here's some English about them. http://www.elec.or.jp/aboutelec06.html
Japan Concept Corporation http://www2.gol.com/users/jconcept/en/index.html
From the Web site, they offer classes in "Survival Skills, Cross-cultural Awareness, Business Writing Skills, Speed Reading, Pronunciation, TOEIC/ TOEFL, Deep Listening Program, Technical Language, Business Negotiations/Presentations/Debating Skills, Public Speaking, Business Correspondence Skills, Project/Time Management, Case Analysis, Financial Language, Overseas Study Program, Socializing etc. "
Phoenix Associates www.phoenixassoc.com
Offices in Tokyo and Osaka.
Simul http://www.simul.co.jp/english/index6.html
The Corporate Training Center provides language training for corporations mainly in English, Chinese, German, and French.
Sumikin International www.sumikin-intercom.com/e/default.aspx
They are based in Kansai and basically service Proctor & Gamble, Sumitomo and Mitsubishi. People who work there need to have a business background and/or bona fide TESL experience.
The Tokyo Center for Language and Culture (TCLC) http://www.tclc-web.co.jp/
Offices in Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka, Kitakyushu. From their Web site, they offer "offer English, Chinese, Spanish, French, Thai, Indonesian, Korean, German, Portuguese and Japanese conversation seminars, English business and technical writing programs, correspondence education
courses, overseas study programs, interpretation and translation, and a wide range of language and communication consultation services."
Oh, and it's nice to know we're "cooler". I wasn't sure if that meant nicer or that we had a colder disposition. |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Charlie123 wrote: |
Judging by the posters in this thread, Japan is definitely cooler, at least in terms of expat crowd. Take a look at the Korea forums. Any given thread in the general discussion is filled with 3/5 psychotic hatemongers.
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If either country could be accurately judged solely on the content of the respective dave's esl forums, then that'd definitely be right. 
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much in everyday life though. |
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Charlie123
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Oh, thanks for the heads up. If there is going to be psychotic hatemongers in my life, I'd prefer they were on Dave's rather than in my face.
| ironopolis wrote: |
| Charlie123 wrote: |
Judging by the posters in this thread, Japan is definitely cooler, at least in terms of expat crowd. Take a look at the Korea forums. Any given thread in the general discussion is filled with 3/5 psychotic hatemongers.
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If either country could be accurately judged solely on the content of the respective dave's esl forums, then that'd definitely be right.
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much in everyday life though. |
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Khyron
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Tokyo Metro City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Korea to Japan, but I have a little problem.... |
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| Charlie123 wrote: |
I would like to move from Korea, where I have been teaching for the past three years, to Japan but I have some issues.
First, I have a master's degree in English which has served me well in Korea -- I have visiting professor status (with an E1 visa) at one of the best universities in Korea. In addition, I make a great salary, about 50 million won a year for an average of eighteen hours a week work, including office hours. I get three months vacation plus all school holidays and extra money for pension that I can keep when I leave -- making my net salary somewhere in the mid-50's.. The environment is relaxed and I answer to no one in terms of what hours I keep, how I teach, grade, or any other aspect of my professional life. My boss is a busy administrator who I say hello to in the hallway about once a week.
Really not so bad...
The trouble is, I am a little spoiled and it would be hard to get off my professorial butt and go teach little Japanese gremlins in an academy or whatever for a fraction of what I am making now and more hours. I have all the standard reasons for wishing to leave Korea and move to Japan (mostly the indifferent culture) but I am wondering where I might search for jobs that reflect my slightly-better-than-average qualifications. Any ideas? |
Here's an idea: you've got it good in Korea, and probably won't get it so good in Japan. Stay where you are.
50 million won/year is decent. Right now, with the economy all over the place, it doesn't amount to a lot of yen(not quite 4 million yen), but if it goes back to normal, that's about 6-7 million yen/year.
In my personal opinion, unless you plan on spending the rest of your days in Japan or you REALLY, REALLY want to live in Japan, it would be a mistake to come here. |
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Khyron
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Tokyo Metro City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Charlie123 wrote: |
I feel the shivering chill of an icy wet blanket being thrown over my meek shoulders.
Glenski, I sincerely thank you for the helpful information, but I know for a fact that a forty five year old with a few years of Korean experience can get a decent uni position. Please resist the temptation to reply that you are just being helpfully-realistic. I realize that it is a much different environment than Korea, but implying that my chances are near zero simply isn't the case. (I'd be interested in hearing other perspectives on this). |
I've lived in both Korea and in Japan. In my opinion, Glenski is right on the mark. Your chances of getting into a university, as you are in Korea, are very, very low. Think in the low single-digit percentile. They really are near zero. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Korea to Japan, but I have a little problem.... |
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| Khyron wrote: |
| I've lived in both Korea and in Japan. In my opinion, Glenski is right on the mark. Your chances of getting into a university, as you are in Korea, are very, very low. Think in the low single-digit percentile. They really are near zero. |
I agree. Considering the description of the OPs situation in Korea, I'd say he's better off there.
I was going to do a point by point comparison of the OP's situation to how things are in Japan, but after skimming through the thread, I realize that most have already been addressed. I'll just say that the situation the OP describes is comparable to what is offered tenured faculty here, and the chances of walking into that from outside Japan with just a master's degree and no Japanese are very slim to say the least. |
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azarashi sushi
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Shinjuku
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: |
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It sounds like you've got a nice set up there, Charlie! That's quite a sweet deal, so be certain that you're really going to like Japan a lot better before you give it up! I would just be wary of choosing one place simply because you don't like the other place.
I haven't spent any significant time in Korea (just went to Seoul for a short vaction) but just on a superficial level, I would say Japan (and I'm talking about Tokyo here) is the easier of the two to live in. It's very clean, well organized with a generally high standard everywhere (it comes at a price though!) and people generally leave you alone. You may find though, on a less superficial level, if you're not especially a fan of the Japanese and their culture, you may also get bored and frustrated.
Let us know how it goes. |
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