Job Discussion Forums

[PAULH]

If you read Japanese, here are some links that explain the difference between Kyoto dialect and Osaka dialect. Tokyo people will be able to see the differences between 'Hyojingo' standard Japanese, too

http://www.geocities.jp/immanuel_wa/hoby/osakaben/osakaben.htm
http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~zom/Kyo-to/keihan.html
http://www2g.biglobe.ne.jp/~gomma/
http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~zom/Kyo-to/

[Brooks]

In Yamaguchi that verb ending is the dialect. It is not about class.

[Vince]

Both PaulH and Brooks are right about Tokyo and Osaka, but I think they're misunderstanding each other. It would be clearer to say that the Tokyo subculture is regarded as beaurocratic in nature, whereas the Osaka subculture is regarded as mercantilistic.

Tokyoites consider Osakans to be money grubbers. Many Tokyoites have told me about the Osakan money greeting, and I've also heard from Tokyoites that Osakans will offer you something only twice (etiquette states that you customarily decline twice, then truthfully accept or decline the third time). Tokyoites see themselves as above this, but that's of course not always the case. I read a newspaper article that said that Tokyo-based retail chains in the Osaka area have hurt the haggling that is a typical part of Osaka culture.

If I had it to do again, Tokyo wouldn't be on the list of choices. Not that Osaka would be very high on the list. I'd probably choose Hokkaido or Akita first, then Fukuoka, then maybe Hiroshima... I'd go back home before I'd choose Tokyo.

[easyasabc]

[shmooj]

[Brooks]

so easyasabc, where is your mother from in Japan?

I have students in Tokyo with bad attitudes but they say wakanai. They are just speaking Kanto ben as people do here.

Of course it is up to Japanese people to decide what dialect they want to speak, but if they speak the local dialect, they will fit in.

When my boss travels in western Japan (Shikoku, for example) does he speak Kansai ben or Kanto ben? (he lives in Yokohama but grew up in Wakayama)
Of course he will speak Kansai ben.

[shmooj]

[Brooks]

I do.
In Britain some people learned RP. The dialect from the south has the prestige.

But Japan doesn`t have the equivilent.

[shmooj]

Well, two things. Actually I think I got the drift of your post a bit wrong anyway. You were saying the guy was born in a Kansai-ben speaking area anyway which is a different kettle of fish and I see what you mean after re-reading your post now and agree with you. It makes sense.

Secondly however, though I was born in London, I was born in Lambeth. Hardly RP country. Certainly not an accent of prestige in any part of the country except perhaps Essex (but who wants to be prestigious there?!)

So, I guess it is different here in Japan.

[Brooks]

You were born in two places? Cool.

I liked the Story of English for what it said about RP.
But maybe Britain isn`t like it used to be.
I meant for people having to learn something like RP to work in broadcasting in Britain. In Japan, I think it may happen to, with NHK.

It definitely does in America. Tom Brokaw and Dan Rather had to change their speech in order to be on TV.

[shmooj]