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subject/object stuff
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Snoopy



Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 185
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has nobody heard of an object pronoun used after a preposition?
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:06 pm    Post subject: People, it's basic grammar Reply with quote
I'm going to have to agree with scot47 on this one, although I won't do so on such biting terms.

The mysteries of subject-object and then subject of another clause are not difficult to unlock. I would say as well, find a more detailed grammar book or a decent website and figure it out independently.

I do like the avatar though, marco. Keep keepin' on.

Last edited by fat_chris on Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
In sentence 1:

"Mrs P reminded us to vote for her", "us" is a direct object and I guess "her" is an indirect object?

However, in sentence 2:

"Mrs P suggested that we should vote for her", my book says "we" is not a direct object, but doesn't tell me what "we" is. Is it an object, or a subject? And then, if "we" is an (indirect) object what is "her" in the second sentence?


1. Mrs P = subject, reminded = transitive verb, us = direct object, to vote for her = infinitive phrase serving as indirect object

2. Mrs P = subject, suggested = transitive verb, that we should vote for her = noun clause serving as direct object (http://ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/clauses.htm)
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Amazing how easy it is to rattle the cage of some of these characters on this site !

Wow ! Marcoregano, cool it !

I still say this is not the place for Basic Grammar. Just as I would expect a practising bus driver to know about changing gears on his bus, so I expect EFL teachers to have some idea of simple grammatical concepts. But then I am an old0-fashioned fuddy duddy.
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Marcoregano



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh pleeeaaase! Of course have some idea of basic grammar. However, I - as well as others, as is apparent from other posts - still find some of it confusing. And some students find it confusing too. And scot47...surely it's not for you to decide whether this is the place for such a discussion or not, though it beats me where would be better than a TEFLer discussion forum. There are plenty of discussions on the go that I don't find interesting or informative....I ignore them. Thanks Glenski for your post, and I'll have a look at that website.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To answer your question, the direct object of suggested is the noun clause "that we vote for her"; "we" is the subject of the subordinate noun clause, which is the direct object of 'suggested.'

Your guess that 'her' is an indirect object is way off the mark. The sentence is actually not that easy to parse, but substitute 'told' for reminded and it becomes clearer.

He told me to vote for her
He told me the answer

'me' is the indirect object of 'told' and the direct object is the noun phrase 'to vote for her'. I believe you can parse your example the same way, though direct and indirect objects aren't very enlightening concepts here.

I woudn't be bothered about teachng English even though you don't have the least idea about grammar. A few years back I got a lift in Riyadh off a taxi driver. He couldn't speak either Engish or Arabic - only Afghani - and he only knew two locations in the whole city: "Riyadh" and "airport" (he wasn't that hot at driving, either). Still his employer didn't seem to mind, and he's probably still got the job, so if he can do it, why not you?
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leeroy



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 777
Location: London UK
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
leeroy wrote:
You are not interested in discussing, sharing or debating anything, preferring to make snide derogatory remarks of little practical use or consequence.


scot47, see this as a challenge... Say something useful! Share with us some of your acquired knowledge! I (honestly) want to hear it.
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Marcoregano



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Stephen Jones wrote:

He told me to vote for her
He told me the answer

'me' is the indirect object of 'told' and the direct object is the noun phrase 'to vote for her'.

Mr Jones, you are wrong. "Me" is the direct object in both your examples. Don't worry, you can go back to cab driving in Riyadh....
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