| View previous topic :: View next topic | 
	
	
		| Author | Message | 
	
		| fluffyhamster 
 
 
 Joined: 13 Mar 2005
 Posts: 3292
 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:24 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| 
 
	  | reactionary wrote: |  
	  | http://nambufwc.org/japanese-law/labor-standards-law/ 
 First year of a one year contract � you can quit at either the end of the contract or quit by following the procedures laid out in the contract for quitting. If you don�t follow these rules your company has a theoretical claim against you but can only act on this by using civil court procedures.
 
 
 So it looks like I am in the wrong?
 |  
 But most contracts in Japan (especially for foreigners) are only for a year, even for those who've been here for years. If we always had to work for however long an employer demanded, and with wages being threatened to be withheld (or indeed withheld), we'd be reduced to slavery! Then, there is the counter-clause/article business that GBBB has produced.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Glenski 
 
  
 Joined: 15 Jan 2003
 Posts: 12844
 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Labor Standards Law/Act does not state anything specific about a situation where someone is still in their first year of a contract.  That is, if this fits you, there is no law or regulation that says the employee must give a certain amount of time for notice upon resigning. 
 The employer, on the other hand, must give at least 30 days' notice if he is terminating you.  If 30 days is not possible, then he must give you 30-days' pay in lieu thereof.
 Article 20. In the event that an employer wishes to
 dismiss a worker, the employer shall provide at least 30
 days advance notice. An employer who does not give 30 days
 advance notice shall pay the average wages for a period of
 not less than 30 days; provided, however, that this shall not
 apply in the event that the continuance of the enterprise
 has been made impossible by a natural disaster or other
 unavoidable reason nor when the worker is dismissed for
 cause imputable to the worker.
 
 The very last item in the LSA says this about people who have completed their contract (ignore the gibberish and just read the red, emphasis is mine):
 Article 137. A worker who has entered a labor
 contract (excluding workers prescribed in the items of
 Article 14 paragraph 1) for a definite period (excluding
 those prescribing a fixed period necessary for the completion
 of a specified undertaking and limited to those of a duration
 exceeding one year), may, until the measures provided for in
 Article 3 of the Supplementary Provisions of the Act to
 Partially Amend the Labor Standards Act (Act No. 104 of
 2003) are established, notwithstanding the provisions of
 Article 628 of the Civil Code, resign at any time on or after
 the day on which one year has elapsed since the first day of
 the period of the said labor contract, by giving notice to the
 employer.
 http://www.jil.go.jp/english/laborinfo/library/documents/llj_law1-rev.pdf
 
 All of that notwithstanding, the General Union has this to say:
 Q: I want to quit my job. How much notice do I have to give?
 A: This question is not covered under the Labour Standards Law but is based on precedents set in civil courts. It all depends on whether you have a limited or an unlimited term contract, and if you have a limited term contract what contract year you are in.
 
 Unlimited Term Contract --- two weeks notice is sufficient.
 
 First year of a one year contract --- you can quit at either the end of the contract or quit by following the procedures laid out in the contract for quitting. If you don't follow these rules your company has a theoretical claim against you but can only act on this by using civil court procedures.
 
 Second year (plus) of a renewed one year contract --- two weeks notice could be sufficient in most cases.
 
 The union recommends that you try to follow your employment contract as much as possible, as this is what we expect from employers.
 http://www.generalunion.org/law/lsl#11
 
 
 
 As for that last sentence, if we assume employers truly do follow the contract, then if they say the employee needs to provide 3-4 months' notice, they will reciprocate in kind.  To that I say, fat chance!
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| fluffyhamster 
 
 
 Joined: 13 Mar 2005
 Posts: 3292
 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Still, in today's market, it could well take months and months to find and set up a new job, which may not be particularly nice or secure either. I'd try to avoid changing jobs wherever possible, or at least the potential "legal" issues involved. |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| reactionary 
 
 
 Joined: 22 Mar 2008
 Posts: 60
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| I'm leaving Japan... |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| womblingfree 
 
 
 Joined: 04 Mar 2006
 Posts: 826
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| It's behavior like this from bosses that leads to people giving no notice whatsoever, waiting for their cheque to clear and then just going home. 
 11 weeks notice is more than enough time to find someone else.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Apsara 
 
 
 Joined: 20 Sep 2005
 Posts: 2142
 Location: Tokyo, Japan
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| I agree, a company asking for 4 month's notice and threatening to withhold pay is just asking to have a runner done on them. |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| AgentMulderUK 
 
  
 Joined: 22 Sep 2003
 Posts: 360
 Location: Concrete jungle  (Tokyo)
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Quitting is easy. 
 You walk out the door and forget about them.
 
 Done that twice. Doesn't kill you.
 
 Don't take any crap you wouldn't take in your own country.
 
 
 Plenty more fish in the sea. Unless its already been made into sushi..
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Ichigo 
 
  
 Joined: 18 Jan 2008
 Posts: 29
 Location: Japan
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| @AgentMulderUK: Didn't you have any problems with your former employers after quitting like that? 
 I'm in a similar situation right now.
 My current contract ends soon and I've already signed the new contract (for visa application reasons etc.). I'm thinking about quitting, though.
 My old contract which is still valid doesn't say anything about quitting and actually one of my coworkers quit last year, giving only a 14days notice.
 My new contract, though, states that I have to give 3 months in advance.
 Is there anything my employer could "do" to me if I can't give him a 3months notice?
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| wayne432 
 
 
 Joined: 05 Jun 2008
 Posts: 255
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Also a quick question regarding first year contracts... 
 If the employer withholds any amount of money for a pay period or doesn't want to sign up employees for Shakai Hoken and instead has them sign up for Kokumin, does that warrant a breach of contract by them and allow employees to quit at periods other than stated in the contract?
 
 I thought I found this in the labor laws a while ago, but I couldn't find it again recently, so I thought I'd ask.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| AgentMulderUK 
 
  
 Joined: 22 Sep 2003
 Posts: 360
 Location: Concrete jungle  (Tokyo)
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| 
 
	  | Ichigo wrote: |  
	  | @AgentMulderUK: Didn't you have any problems with your former employers after quitting like that? 
 I'm in a similar situation right now.
 My current contract ends soon and I've already signed the new contract (for visa application reasons etc.). I'm thinking about quitting, though.
 My old contract which is still valid doesn't say anything about quitting and actually one of my coworkers quit last year, giving only a 14days notice.
 My new contract, though, states that I have to give 3 months in advance.
 Is there anything my employer could "do" to me if I can't give him a 3months notice?
 |  
 None. They can't do nothing to your visa. They can stop any pay still owed of course,but I was happy to be out of there.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		|  |