Job Discussion Forums

[struelle]

I've started an upper-intermediate class with a small group of adult teachers recently, as part of my usual program.

I always kick off a new semester with topic selection and votes. We all know each other, so now the students all want me to teach them 'real' English. Of course that means swearing!

They don't plan to swear, but since they're going abroad, they all know they'll hear this language a lot. So when they hear it, they want to know how to respond and deal with people in those situations. Makes sense.

So does anyone have lesson plans on this and/or know where I can find some? I know my 'language focus' here, but how to put this into a topic?

Steve

[James Stunell]

I recently received a flyer for a new book called:

"The Long Island Guide to Vulgar English and Sex Slang" by Jonathan Chamberlain

The flyer claims:
"This 352 page book was specially written for adult language students learning English. This book is NOT available in the bookshops. It is only available by advance order from: www.vulgarenglish.com"

Apparently the first edition is available March 15th. Could be just what you're looking for!

[Phil_b]

There's a chapter on swearing and taboo language in Swan's Practical English Usage.... might be helpful

There's also a thread from a couple of months back looking at the issue... I can't remember what it's called though.....

[Capergirl]

Some may disagree with me, but I feel that a lot of 'real' English doesn't include swearing. I know people who don't swear at all (no, not me ). I would certainly downplay the whole swearing thing in the classroom and instead focus on idiomatic expressions, regional dialects, etc. I know I'm going to sound like Scot47 by saying this, but "abroad" is an awfully large place. Where exactly are they going? Learning British expressions won't help much in Canada. Learning Canadian expressions won't help much in Britain. We even use many different swear expressions (like "take the piss" for example, a British expression I had never heard prior to reading posts by some cheeky Brits here on Dave's ..LOL). You might want to find out from them what region they want to focus on. (Lord help you if they say they want a little bit of everything. )

[dmb]

A few years ago I did a C.R.A.P. lesson.(OK I've probably done alot of c.r.a.p. lessons) I had a group of 20 somethings who I got on with,went out for a beer with them and still keep in touch. I adapted a muti-word verb lesson with the focus on c.r.a.p. + particle.
Before the lesson I was c.r.a.p.p.i.n.g. myself about the content. However, I didn't c.r.a.p.out of it, continued the lesson and it c.r.a.p.p.e.d. on most of my previous lessons.

I suppose if I had the right class I could adapt c.r.a.p and turn it into a f*** lesson

[Dr.J]

I think it's important that students learn about swearing, but not that you teach it.

Why? Because I can guarantee that it's one of the first things that they will pick up upon arriving in a foreign country.

I think you should tell them about the place of swearing in the culture. In Japan, there are swear words, but they don't carry the same weight of taboo as they do in the West.

All this is in Swan somewhere...

[ls650]

[struelle]

[Shaman]

I know it's a cop out, but I use video scene study. It's a sidedoor intro to the lingo that some students desperately want. If they ask, fine. If not, fine too. Gangster flicks are best for the wide variety of colourful expressions. Any problems from administration can be answered thus:

"If you don't want the students to watch it, then what the f**k was it doing there then, @#$%^&*!?"

Shaman

[arioch36]

Personally, I would never teach swear words. But that is a personal conviction. I know there are foreign teachers who think it is cool to teach the natives to swear because they gewt a kick out of.

Do they need to know. Absolutely not. Please tell me one reason why they need to know?

1)You don't need to understand the word to know that someone is angry at you.

2) I don't knopw od any school where swearing is considered an acceptable part of the classroom ...America, China England, Kuwait. Please tell me what country you have lived or worked in where swearing was acceptable in the classroom. Chinese teachers don't swear in the classroom. American teachers don't swear in American clasrooms. (I f they do they can be seriously reprimanded)

3) Even if you teach the correct swear words for each country (doubtful) that they may go to, you will not be able to communicate the proper context in a classroom appropiate way. Thanx to teachers like you guys seem to want to be, in writing class I get girls trying to be modern and use swear words. When you went to college did you use swear words when you wrote papers? But thanx to you guys, some Chinese syudents think that they should. You are mis teaching them the culture of swear as soon as you use the classroom for this purpose. Save it for a bar.

Worse, there are foreign teachers that actually teach young students how to swear. They think that it is cool.

4) Personal experience... Chinese friends taught me many different things. I could not understand until after a year or two in the country. And in that time all I did was make a fool out of my self (yes, easy to do), but moreso, hurt some pwople when I used the swear words in the wrong way. Who could have believed that "shenme dongxi" " What kind of stuff are you" could hurt someone.

Personally I think you guys who teach swearing in the classroom are kidding yourselves, like the teacher I know in henan who invited freshman students to his apartment to drink alcohol...so they could learn how western students acted.

Such garbage. Teaching swearing make the teacher feel cool, yeah I guess so. But I would suggest that you will be actually teaching culture that is not true

PS, they have all watched more Hollywood movies then I , so they are all well aware swear wpords. The student who swears saying "Jesus Christ" doesn't have to return to my class until he talks to the Dean, the President, writes me a letter, and a paper.

But p[eople who teach swearing usually don't have much regard for other people's feelings

Finally, if you were a true teacher and planned to teach swearing (I don't know any committed teachers who do this) how can you teach them swearing if you don't undrestand how they use swearing in their own country?

[denise]

Depending on the context, I have no problem with students using an occasional swear word in class--not gratuitously, but if I (using whatever innate native-speaker judgment I have) judge it to be appropriate. Using swear words in papers is a bit too much--someone at some point should have taught that student about CONTEXT!!!

My students recently held a discussion about South Park (they chose the topic and led the discussion), so the topic of language came up. We talked about such questions as: Is censorship OK? Is it OK to use certain types of language at certain hours (e.g., I explained to them the whole "prime time/family viewing hour" concept in America and asked them to compare)? Is it important for learners of English to recognize swear words? What about using them--when and where is it OK? In such a context, I would have found it very odd if none of them had uttered a swear word. As it was, there were very few: one student mentioned that during a game of basketball with some Americans, he had difficulty conversing, but he remembered things like f*ck and sh*t when he missed his shots. I'd say his use of swear words in that situation was very appropriate and realistic, and probably helped him socially--made him less of an "outsider."

d

[arioch36]

Of course, I personally wouldn't do South Park. When I did Forest Gump, I did teach about swearing (when you go to boot camp, the drill sergeants use plenty of swear words)

If you took Chinese language lessons in an American/British/Australian college, would a class devoted to how to swear in Chinese be considered acceptable? If you are teaching a swearing class, how about the students who believe swearing is wrong? I believe it would actually be against the rules and laws in America, unless the entire class was about swearing, or it was context specific to a relevant subject. I know if otherwise, I would be complaining to the school. Never had a teacher who swore in class.

When a student says , "I want to learn "Real English"", that's my cue that they are trying to escape having to work in class, and that they are hoping that you will just be a dancing Panda for them

[Snoopy]

When told a blatant lie by a student, I have been known to use the word b0ll0cks. Once, an Arab student asked me about the meaning. Another said he knew. Yes, Khalifa? You shoot a gun and it fires b0ll0cks. Very good, Khalifa, thank you.

[denise]

arioch36--Just to clarify, we did not watch South Park. The assignment was this: every week, a pair of students had to bring in a topic for discussion. The day before, they had to bring in a short reading/vocab list. This week's discussion was "adult anime" (hooo boy! I had to warn them not to use "adult" in the future, when discussing entertainment...), specifically South Park.

I think there's a difference between planning an entire lesson around swearing--e.g., walking into the room and saying, "class, today we are going to learn..." (which I confess to doing once a few years back--served no purpose, but hey, we all make mistakes!) and dealing with it as it comes up, especially if students ask for it. I do consider myself to be a very dedicated, professional teacher, and I will address swear words as they come up. (Why not? Shouldn't we be happy to field any language-related questions from our students? Whether you like them or not, foul words are a part of the language.)

A final thought--I think the educational context matters. If I were teaching young children, or non-academically-oriented students of any age, I might think that addressing swear words would be inappropriate because a) they're too young or b) maybe they are just trying to avoid working. In my situation, though, the students are old enough, and they're pre-university level, so if there's a way to get a meaningful discussion out of swear words, or at least to get them to start noticing things about the language, then I most certainly will discuss swearing.

d

p.s. Yes, I have had teachers who swore in class--professors in my MA program. We were all adults, and linguistically-oriented adults at that, so there were no problems. I was a bit embarrassed, though, when asked to explain "FUBAR" in one of my classes one day.

[Roger]

Personally, I am slightly at odds with the notion that words need to be taught at intermediate and higher levels; that's a stage where students ought to know where they have significant gaps - which they should be able to fill by themselves.
Swear words? That's that register that schools only touch with a ten-foot pole.
BUt as a proponent of literature for my Chinese students I am not averse to introducing them to colloquial speech that may even be offensive.
In fact, many Chinese seem to know English swear words without knowing English per se.
What they do need to learn is what the asterisk so commonly used as a fig leaf in English texts is meant to hide.