Job Discussion Forums

[elkarlo]

[elkarlo]

[johanne]

Interesting opinions here. For me it all comes down to motivation - if you have a reason to study Japanese you will, if you can get by without it and are not that interested, you won't. The person who is motivated is not a better person that the one who isn't. It's a matter of choice and there is nothing shameful in making a choice. If you choose not to study Japanese you will have a different experience than someone who does study it. Some might feel the person who did study made a better choice and will have a better experience, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

I actually speak intermediate Japanese, but couldn't care less if others don't. Just like I couldn't have cared less when I lived in Vancouver if people chose to learn English or not. My husband is Japanese and when we lived in Vancouver he did a lot of gardening work with other Asians, including a bunch of Japanese who could barely speak English. They had been in Canada for 20 years and had enough to do their jobs and had a circle of Japanese friends, so they didn't need anymore. They seemed very happy and satisfied with their lives, so who I am to say they would have a more "meaningful" life if they spoke fluent English. I would say the same applies to foreigners here in Japan. Their Japanese language ability may or may not have a positive impact on their lives here.

I don't think it's rude not to learn the local language - I think it's rude to expect people in the country to speak your language and complain when they don't. If you accept that you will have some struggles because you can't speak the langauge and then find a way to deal with it without complaining, then to me there's no problem.

I would also like a make a comment about the 30 minutes a day of study. If you are a college student with tons of time and little responsibility that does in fact seem like an easy amount to manage. Once you have responsibilities time dwindles quickly. My day starts at 6:30 a.m. where between working and taking care of my 7 year-old there is not a spare moment - and I do mean this literally. I am either, teaching, prepping a class, picking up my kid, spending time with her, making dinner, doing housework, getting my daughter ready for bed, or any number of other things until 9:00 p.m. when my daughter is asleep and then I have a couple of hours to unwind and relax before starting again. There is no way I am up to doing a regular 30 minutes of Japanese study at that point. In fact it was this time crunch that stopped me taking classes when I got to the intermediate level because I couldn't keep up with the kanji and the new vocab every week. I made the choice to stop Japanese and enjoy the other aspects of my life and I don't regret it for a minute.

To the OP - don't be so quick to judge others. Your aspirations and goals are not everyone's and you are not a better person because you have chosen what appear to be "loftier" goals. Choosing to learn or not learn Japanese is not a good measurement of the quality of a person.

[elkarlo]

[elkarlo]

To Johanne:

True I do think it is what you wan to make of your exp. If you want to not learn the native languae fine, but it will limit what you can do. I also think it is rude to not even try. I don't expect fluency, or anything approaching, but I think some effort should be expected.

As for the no time, well you do have a kid. Most ALTs do not. It is not the same situation at all. I would not expect you to be able to the same things as a person who doesn't have kids.

But 30 minutes a day for an ALT is pretty easy to manage.

No I am not better becuase I am making an attempt. But it does mean I put effort into things I do.

Not to sound all surly and such. But I do believe that most people do have time. I've lived with people who don't have time. They really did, it just went to doing inane things like being on break.com for hours, or playing guitar hero for hours, or drinking.

[steki47]

[elkarlo]

[Vince]

[JL]

[JL]

Further up this thread, there was a sidebar between Glenski and Squire22, about the "bandits." I've got to toss my two cents in and say that, yes, they are for real. And to repeat myself, these people used to be the bane of my existence. Now I'm not talking about folks who are simply being friendly. But frankly, in the larger metropolises like Tokyo, Nagoya, etc., Japanese usually don't just chat up strangers. And as an American, who has no hesitation in chatting up anybody about anything, that's too bad. But in my very unscientific estimation, I'd have to say that eight out of ten Japanese approaching you on the train platform to start talking to you out of the blue, are not viewing you as an individual who might have his or her own life going on. They just see you as a walking English lesson. And all other notions are quickly dispelled, when you respond to there question in perfectly fine Japanese, and yet they ignore your efforts in Japanese and keep blabbing in English. It was never about whatever they asked you, or actually talking with you, it was about them using their English on you.

Mind you, on the occasion when a school kid actually has the gumption to say something to me (other than the silly "Haroo", just to garner laughs from his buddies), I always respond to them and offer them encouragement. And I often relent with the adults too, if I'm sensing that they're not viewing me too much as just a dancing bear gaijin. But when they do, or I'm otherwise just not in the mood, in no uncertain terms, I let them have it.

[Sherri]

I would like to add my experience here. I lived for 14 years in Tokyo, now in the US. Japanese husband and 2 kids. I did not learn Japanese well while I was there. I was functional, I could read and write hiragana and katakana, some kanji. I did not study very much. I only took a few classes.

Why? Because I came to Japan to teach English and to become a better teacher, learn more about the craft and about the industry. I worked very hard and my days were spent with other English speaking people from all over the world. I had and still have plenty of Japanese friends and I had a wonderful time. Quite simply, my goal was not to learn Japanese or to be blunt Japanese culture. Of course I did learn much more than I ever intended. But learning Japanese well, was not a goal and it still is not. You may not agree or say I was lazy or selfish. It is just that not everyone who goes to Japan goes to learn Japanese.

I did achieve the goals that I set out though. I felt my time was well-spent. I learned a lot as a teacher and as an administrator in EFL/ESL. I do not regret the time I spent there and I do not regret not learning Japanese well. Even now I rarely need to use Japanese, but I use my teaching and admin skills every day. That was worth the time investment that I put into it.

I hope this gives you the perspective of someone who chose not to learn Japanese well.

Sherri

[Symphany]

I was in Japan for a year and I tried my darndest to learn Japanese and found that I learned more than I ever thought I would. On someone else's yardstick I could have been measured as "not good enough" and therefore not trying and unmotivated. I will have to say from personal experience that I was very motivated though. My personal experience was being thrust into a completely different language, culture with a bad employer to boot, and emotional and personal issues all swirling around me made it ever the more difficult to just put myself down to study and be a good student. I would say everyone has their own personal goals and its hard to measure up to someone else's. You never can, whether it be language learning or something else.

[Apsara]

[JL]

[Squire22]