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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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 Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:51 am Post subject: |
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elkarlo, most of my friends and the majority of my co-workers these days are Japanese- at the places I work on a weekly basis I am the only non-Japanese, although the places I go to once a month or so have other foreigners working there, and I catch up with my Canadian, Kiwi etc friends every so often. My husband is Japanese and we speak a complete mishmash of Japanese and English, although probably tending towards English 60% of the time as his English is better than my Japanese.
I doubt I have lost my upper tier vocab as I work as a proofreader and translator, among other things, and the proofreading includes spell-checking texts written by native English speakers as well as rewriting technical manuals translated by Japanese people (I now know what "baud rates" and "tact times" are). I also read a lot. I did come across a few words I didn't know in a Salman Rushdie book recently- does anyone know off the top of their heads what "minatory" means? I haven't got around to looking it up yet.
Probably my English doesn't really suffer all that much, but "sound effects" that Japanese people use ("heeeh") seem to have become part of my speech which I can't get rid of, and occasionally I realise that I don't know the English word for something- finally when I went to Australia for Christmas I found out that a "shikan burashi" is an "interdental brush" in English! It's not too serious a loss though, I'm thinking. 
Last edited by Apsara on Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| elkarlo wrote: |
| Having studied Japanese in college, I just have to say that even a Japanese major here is maybe at JLPT3 at the very best. |
So? What are you trying to say? JLPT3 is or is not good enough for "meaningful conversations"?
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Stop worrying about the language issue! |
Me? I'm not worrried, it does make for some interesting conversations, as well as it being something that affects or will affect us all here. |
You certainly sound as if language is such a big deal for you to worry about! Do you or do you not have a legitimate beef? I'm getting a suspicion here I don't like.
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| it does seem an awful lot of people are being truned down. |
Again, a very poor choice of words. "Seems". How would you know whether more people or fewer than before are being turned down? Answer: you don't. I respect your decision not to go with JET, but I think it is an unreasonable and ill-informed one that just completely cuts out one more chance at landing a job here.
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| For real conversations. OK this is hard, as it is in another language, and over the net. I guess it would able to talk about why I like a movie, instead of what movie I like. As for what I can do, have you Used Genki? |
Just for giggles, tell me why you like your latest movie...in English.
No, I have never used Genki.
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| To be honest it is easier to demonstrate. I lived with a host family, 3 of the 4 couldn't speak any English. Those 3 I could never really talk to about anything meaningful despite me living there. |
Well, that example did nothing for me. You are just not explaining clearly enough what you mean by "meaningful".
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| I said devoid as in their is Rural flight. |
I'm really sorry, but I have no idea what this means.
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| I really do think much of rural Japan lacks actaul culture, why? Because many people have out right abandoned the countryside. I don't mind the countryside, I do mind that there are no people my age there. |
What sort of "culture" are you looking for that you expect to find only in the bigger cities?
No people your age there? Again, I fail to see any support for that kind of statement. Yes, a lot of youth have decided not to stay on family farms (as one measure of countryside), and have instead moved to the cities to find education and employment. However, to say you have found absolutely no one your age in a country environment is monumentally incredible. I don't even know where to start picking at that to find out the depth of your experience which led you to that conclusion. |
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elkarlo
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 240
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| elkarlo wrote: |
| Having studied Japanese in college, I just have to say that even a Japanese major here is maybe at JLPT3 at the very best. |
So? What are you trying to say? JLPT3 is or is not good enough for "meaningful conversations"?
| Quote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Stop worrying about the language issue! |
Me? I'm not worrried, it does make for some interesting conversations, as well as it being something that affects or will affect us all here. |
You certainly sound as if language is such a big deal for you to worry about! Do you or do you not have a legitimate beef? I'm getting a suspicion here I don't like.
| Quote: |
| it does seem an awful lot of people are being truned down. |
Again, a very poor choice of words. "Seems". How would you know whether more people or fewer than before are being turned down? Answer: you don't. I respect your decision not to go with JET, but I think it is an unreasonable and ill-informed one that just completely cuts out one more chance at landing a job here.
| Quote: |
| For real conversations. OK this is hard, as it is in another language, and over the net. I guess it would able to talk about why I like a movie, instead of what movie I like. As for what I can do, have you Used Genki? |
Just for giggles, tell me why you like your latest movie...in English.
No, I have never used Genki.
| Quote: |
| To be honest it is easier to demonstrate. I lived with a host family, 3 of the 4 couldn't speak any English. Those 3 I could never really talk to about anything meaningful despite me living there. |
Well, that example did nothing for me. You are just not explaining clearly enough what you mean by "meaningful".
| Quote: |
| I said devoid as in their is Rural flight. |
I'm really sorry, but I have no idea what this means.
| Quote: |
| I really do think much of rural Japan lacks actaul culture, why? Because many people have out right abandoned the countryside. I don't mind the countryside, I do mind that there are no people my age there. |
What sort of "culture" are you looking for that you expect to find only in the bigger cities?
No people your age there? Again, I fail to see any support for that kind of statement. Yes, a lot of youth have decided not to stay on family farms (as one measure of countryside), and have instead moved to the cities to find education and employment. However, to say you have found absolutely no one your age in a country environment is monumentally incredible. I don't even know where to start picking at that to find out the depth of your experience which led you to that conclusion. |
Ok so obviously you selectively read.
JLPT=not being able to have a meaningful conversation. I don't see how you don't see that. Also if you go back to what I wrote, I said a Japanese major in the US would at best be a JLPT3.
I'm not worried, but I do care. When I do things, I do them right. What do you mean you're suspicious. What are you even talking about?
Yes, seems. I have used this wonderful thing called the internet to discern from multiple and varied sources that indeed JET's budget has been the same for a good 2 decades. Does that not mean that they would have less money every year on account of inflation. And no I did look into it, and consider it quite hard. I also found that they placed people very remotely. Which occurs more often than not.
Ok Gran Torino. In this movie, an old newly widowed man deals with a changing neighborhood. He is not connected to his neighbors, nor his grown children, and grandchildren. Clint as the main char had fought in the Korea war, and has a dislike for Asians. His neighborhood has become Hmong, a people from Vietnam. His neighbor Thao at first tries to steal Clint's Gran Torino, at behest of a gang.
Anyhow I liked how it showed a person who was alienated and was not relgious, become redeemed. The reason he was able to change was that
he helped his neighbors, really out of self interest, and he softened up to them. He sacrificed himself in order for Thao to live a normal life.
That was my half @$$ quick description.
Meaningful, really man knock it off. You are not that clever for other to put up with you being so blatantly annoying. Go look at at an intermediate level Japanese book and realize many people can at best only do what is in that book. My ability is different in different situations, so I can't simply explain it to you.
Oh hey look at this, rural flight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_flight
http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2778.html
Seems common all over Japan.
By culture, I mean hanging out with people under the age of 45. Culture would be where a village is not fading away from population lose.
So you can find SOME people. Ok put yourself in this position; imagine that you are 23, just graduated college. You arrive in some backwater village, and realize that no one speaks any real English, and your Japanese is lousy. Then you notice that there are like 3 people between 17-45 years old. Out of those 3, 1 is abusy housewife, another a farmer, and the is some guy who has time on his hands. So your pool of potential peers, is that one guy. And don;t tell me that this is uncommon, because then you'd just be wrong. You are right there are SOME people to meet hat are my peers, bu not many, and a very shallow selection.
Where did I get this information from? Oh just a dozen JETs that I have met. You misunderstand many things, you think I sit here and make stuff up. You are what 40? I bet you don't even notice things such as how many young adults there are in a town, why? It really doesn't matter to you. I spoke to my host family's first son last year, he was placed on Tsushima. He said that there were few people his age, and those people didn't hag out with the ALTs as they had other stuff going on. I said "huh" and decided to see if that was a unique exp, which I found out was common in rural Japan.
So I did a lot of research into an issue that was important to me.
Seriously are you like this to everyone? Do you even read what you write? Like when you asked if JL had ever been to Japan. Seriously you argue points that aren't even related to what others post. While you're giving me passing observations into a matter that really doesn't concern you all that much.
Also back to culture, to me that is being close enough to a gym, and a martial Arts gym. When you're too far away for that, I have no interest as a young vibrant man to live there. So what does the average JET do in rural Japan? |
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elkarlo
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 240
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Apsara wrote: |
elkarlo, most of my friends and the majority of my co-workers these days are Japanese- at the places I work on a weekly basis I am the only non-Japanese, although the places I go to once a month or so have other foreigners working there, and I catch up with my Canadian, Kiwi etc friends every so often. My husband is Japanese and we speak a complete mishmash of Japanese and English, although probably tending towards English 60% of the time as his English is better than my Japanese.
I doubt I have lost my upper tier vocab as I work as a proofreader and translator, among other things, and the proofreading includes spell-checking texts written by native English speakers as well as rewriting technical manuals translated by Japanese people (I now know what "baud rates" and "tact times" are). I also read a lot. I did come across a few words I didn't know in a Salman Rushdie book recently- does anyone know off the top of their heads what "minatory" means? I haven't got around to looking it up yet.
Probably my English doesn't really suffer all that much, but "sound effects" that Japanese people use ("heeeh") seem to have become part of my speech which I can't get rid of, and occasionally I realise that I don't know the English word for something- finally when I went to Australia for Christmas I found out that a "shikan burashi" is an "interdental brush" in English! It's not too serious a loss though, I'm thinking. |
Hahaha, right on. Well if your husband uses English, and you proofread I guess you are prolly ok. I guess since you don't have to speak dumbed down English, which prolly womps the old vocab the most.
I forgot how to say "Omeagi" in English, that was a little silly. At that is with my level of imerssion. I am impressed that you have maintained your English, especially on such a high level.
Besides I was just giving you Guff=P |
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