Job Discussion Forums

[Shaman]

I agree with Denise that context is key issue. I haven't taught kids in years, so for me the impressionable minds argument is moot (or bollocks). That being pointed out, I think that exempts me from being one of those teachers who sends little foulmouth urchins your way, Arioch36.

I've never made filth-flarn-filth (see Eddie Murphy's Delirious) the focal point of any lesson. Well, I did once, but I'll get to that. If a word or expression comes up, I won't shy away from it. Glossing over a particular word or expression is a disservice to the student. If a student curses and it's a private lesson (which most of mine are), then I take it as a sign of said student's comfort. In a classroom is another situation altogether. Once again, it's a matter of context. Frustration? Fine, just don't make it a habit. Sprucing up a sentence or volleying an ad hominem attack? Unacceptable. Leave it outside.

I had a private student (quiet little Korean girl) who wanted to learn how to swear. Needless to say, I was shocked. It was the last thing I might have expected. But, she was a paying customer, so...

It was the first time I had been asked to teach the taboo tongue, so I had to be careful about it. First, swearing doesn't arise solely out of anger, so the tone of what is said varies. It ranges from shouts of anger to mutters of disgust to peals of laughter etc. When swearing is used sarcastically or dryly, the context is not quite as clear to many L2 students. Second, there's the whole linguistic aspect. Nouns, adjectives, passives etc. Finally, there are certain expressions that seem to be pretty gender specific. That's right, kiddies. Boys and girls swear differently. Who figured?

I must admit, I'd be pretty surprised if I received an essay with swear words in it. I've always stressed to my students that writing is a formal exercise. That also means no using gonna, wanna etc.

Yes, I teach those.

Shaman

[Deborah]

I wonder if the context issue is partially addressed by this distinction:
are you teaching immigrants (who may have a more pressing need to decipher the language they're encountering on a daily basis) or language students in their home countries - where the perceived need may be less real?
My personal opinion is that swear words, slang, and idioms are all of questionable value unless the student is living (or plans to) in an English-speaking country - in which case it's easier to determine the specific set of stuff (British/American/regional) that is applicable for that student.

[jud]

Here people are a bit more calm about hearing swear words. There are plenty of words heard on television here that would never be used on American public tv (not to mention *beep*...poor Janet). It's been very useful to me to have them explained. It also helps me to know which NOT to use.

There's a great unit on swearing in a book called, I think "Taboos and Issues." I'll check the publisher and then post it.

Arioch, quite interesting that one cannot say "Jesus Christ" without going to the principal's office and then writing a paper. Here we host the Vatican and yet good church-going people often complain "Madonna", "Christ," etc.

May I say Holy Moses?

[jud]

Oh heavens to Betsy (hope I'm not offending). I can't believe that the word br..e..a..s...t was bleeped. And if I wanted to speak about my favourite chicken dish?

[johnslat]

Dear jud,
Yup - and c*cktail or any other use of the "rooster" word. You might want to employ the phrase "chicken bosoms".
Regards,
John

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[jud]

John,

I'll keep you a-bosom of the situation.

Ha ha.

Jud

[saudade]

I do think it's sometimes important to teach swear words (like immigrants, as noted above). I mean, I think you would occasionally have difficulty as an immigrant in New York City without some of that knowledge. But it is also true that those words carry weight and power (which is why they're swear words in the first place), and that varies based on the culture. So teaching them carries a responsibility. It's not like teaching "have a cow" or "love handles", or even "keep a-bosom of the situation".

[ls650]

[Deconstructor]

Swearing is poetry, for those who know how to do it well. And the greatest poetic movie ever: South Park!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, arioch36, I think you ought to remove that giant brick out of your rear and stop sending students to the authorities.

Have a f*cking nice day!!!!!!!!

[denise]

Sigh.

Please don't turn this into an American-bashing thread--it's far too easy to do. Where's the challenge?!?

Besides, you might offend some people who just might happen to agree with you.

d

[johnslat]

Dear Deconstructor,

"Whenever you look up you ought to see Canada and not God and learn something from us!!!!!!!!"


FAITHWAY BAPTIST COLLEGE OF CANADA
1964 Salem Road
Ajax, Ontario L1S 4S7
Dr. Gregory O. Baker, President
Phone: 905-686-0951
Fax: 905-686-1450
E-mail: [email protected]
Web site: www.faithway.org/college.htm

Began 1983. Independent Baptist Bible college. "Training Servants for the Master." The college is an integral part of FaithWay Baptist Church.
Certificate of Biblical Studies (1 yr.), Graduate of Theology Diploma (3 yrs.), Bachelor and Master's degrees offered for training pastors, Christian school teachers, missionaries, church workers, and music instructors.

"We believe in the plenary, verbal inspiration of the sixty-six books of the Bible. The Old and New Testaments are inerrant in the original writings, and they are the supreme and final authority in all matters of faith and practice. We believe that the Masoretic Text of the Old Testament and the Textus Receptus of the New Testament are the preserved Word of God. It is our practice to use only the King James Version." --from Statement of Faith. 5/2003

http://www.tpgh.org/archive/books/triumph.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbis/subscribe.html

http://www.foothillsalliance.com/ministries/Care%20Groups/042703sermon.htm

http://www.peopleunitedforreligiousfreedom.org/curriculum.html

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9963/92031


http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=7F37B6F1-5364-4D9F-BFCA-ED0E96C21840


Fundamentalism, Christian or otherwise, is not confined to any one country.
Regards,
John

[arioch36]

FUBAR ... well the nicer version is "fouled up beyond all recognition.

Well, I would not actually make my students go to the principal's office for swearing with Christ's name. I was being a little trollish. But it was interesting to see how those who like to swear react... with no appreciation for what another person considers important. IS650 asked

[johnslat]

Dear arioch36,
My last line, in my reply to Deconstrutor, sums it up, I'd say

"Fundamentalism, Christian or otherwise, is not confined to any one country. "

But now I notice that part of one of his posts has been deleted - either by him or by a Moderator, I assume (although that same part is quoted in denise's reply to him). Personally, I have no quarrel with anyone's religious beliefs, as long as:

1. those beliefs do not mandate persecution of others who believe differently - or who don't believe at all.

2. the believer will accord my beliefs the same respect that I accord his/hers.

Having worked for many years in a country that is a theocracy, one in which saying the wrong thing about one religion or daring to practice another could both send a person to jail, I feel strongly about anyone trying to impose his/her set of beliefs upon others.
Regards,
John

[ls650]