Job Discussion Forums

[glimmer]

I'm looking at a 12-month contract with an organization in a major city who offer a "get paid (tax free) while you train" program for ESL teachers. It all seems reputable enough, but they've just told me I should apply for a 3-month "F" (Business) visa, with assurances that the visa can easily be extended after I arrive.

This strikes me as weird if not suspicious - my understanding is a "Z" (work) visa is a legal requirement if you intend to earn income in China. Or is there some distinction between paid training programs and "pure" teaching jobs?

Comments welcome.

[rmcdougall]

Don't worry about it.

There will be some who will come on with various legal theories, but as long as you have a good relationship with your employer you are fine.

We do it all the time.

[Buck Lin]

Teaching English is a business, so keep your reciepts. Education is a business so you are not breaking any laws. But being a teacher does not make you a business person. Maybe you are being taken for a ride.

[rmcdougall]

[Buck Lin]

China is the best place for serious teachers. The money is not the best the conditions are less than ideal, but it is a learning experience for everyone.

[suanlatudousi]

Tax free
F visa

This is clearly a shady program. If you receive a salary you are required by law to pay tax - unless of course it is below the threshold for paying taxes. And, if you're receiving that particular salary then you're crazy. Also, this employer is likely not authorized to have foreign experts or they'd get you the proper visa. It's obvious you'd be working illegally.

This employer is clearly trying to bypass all laws - - move on

Ignore other people who say to do it or "we do it all the time."

Find a proper job.

[glimmer]

[Kibbs]

Wow.. What a bunch of douche advice. Do not work on a F visa. Period. If you do, please be sure to post the results here so I can hav an opportunity to L O L.

[roadwalker]

You may very well be able to work on an F visa as it is probably done all the time. And you may very well never be charged taxes for your income/stipen/expenses/per diem or whatever they want to call it when they pay you to teach English.

On the other hand, as far as the Chinese tax people are concerned you are separate from your employer or stipender or whatever. They got their problems you got yours. The company won't have your back. (You probably won't earn enough for your home country to worry about taxes, but check that too if you are Canadian for instance.)

Same thing if the government wants to crack down on F visa abuse or a series of coincidences put you in the PSB's sites. The company may or may not get spanked for their hiring/stipending practices but that doesn't have anything to do with your situation. The company will NOT pay any fine for you and the government won't ask them too. You are SOLELY responsible for your legal status in China. At least check with the PSB in the area where train and teach will engage you. Otherwise I would give it a pass. If you teach English in China, it should be with a z-visa.

[suanlatudousi]

You cannot receive a salary or any payment of any kind on a true F visa -- assuming the payment comes from a Chinese business.

If you're going to be teaching on an F visa - that is a clear sign of deception. Anyone who wants a foreign English teacher should get accreditation from the government to employ foreigners for teaching purposes. Subterfuge is what this is --

There are plenty of properly procedured (today's newly invented word) jobs out there.

[Teatime of Soul]

Has anyone ever really found it too difficult to find legal employment here?

Why would you choose to go to a foreign country and work illegally?

Do you think your employer, or anyone on this board who advocates this will step up and pay the fines or flight costs if you run afoul of the law?

[Kibbs]

It is merely a gimmick for a company like TEFL International who toutes its programs across the globe to make money on you and on the students while you teach them.

You won't be able to convert your visa to a work visa and you may end up deported. China is not playing around with illegal employment, if you are caught you will pay a fine and you wont be able to get a visa for several years.

As for those who claim going to Hong Kong for a work visa works - three teachers from our school went early last week. each had apply in Hong Kong, on their paperwork and each and every one of them were told to get their visa in their home country. They didn't even issue them a return visa.

Not worth working illegally. The fools here who are working on a "F" visa probably do not have a diploma and their time working in this way is limited..

[Itsme]

I don't understand why everyone is always so paranoid all of the time.

Why is it so hard to get someone on a Z visa? Obviously we have no clue because I have not seen a coherent post concerning the reason.

Business visas are easy to come by (for whatever reason) and you will be perfectly fine working on one.

I did, and never once felt any heat for doing so. This is not the USA where one feels like the authorities are just LOOKING for ways of busting you. This is China, where you can walk up to the police on the street, show them your business visa, and then they will probably take you out drinking or set you up at the local bordello.

This is really a different place, so please drop all expectations based on your previous experience.

It would be lovely to have a z visa, but the hoops you have to jump through just are not worth it. If you can get a business visa then I say go for it. Your employer will not hold it against you and blackmail you with it. The police will not come banging on your 21st floor door, and you will have a nice shiny visa in your passport to show that you are a businessman/woman.

[Kibbs]

Itsme, you are an idiot and what you are advising people to do is to work illegally. Its obvious you have not been in China for awhile. Maybe they let Mexicans work illegally there in Houston where you sit typing this from, but for those who re living in China in the past year, anyone with basic knowledge can tell you that working on a F visa is illegal, and it cannot be converted.

Your advise is dangerous. Newbies, you come out here on a Z visa or stay home.

[glimmer]

PM me if you want to know the name of the organisation