Job Discussion Forums

[ithos]

I'm a newb with a sociology degree and unrelated masters who will have a CELTA. Male, 23, Irish.

What I'm trying to work out is the subjective issue of:

1.Where the best country or city is to teach in.

2.What type of school/institute in whatever country/city you choose is the best gig for a newb.

I am not after just money or just a good time but a harmonious mix of the two.

So the main criteria I can think of are

1.Holidays and spare time (I can get some shit 9to5 with 14days hols at home! I would like as much time to travel around the country and it's surrounding countries as possible)
2.Quality of life (working conditions, friendliness of locals, quality of environment, social, cultural and sporting opportunities)
3.Salary to help with all of the above.

So where are the dream jobs... completely subjective, I'm just looking for educated opinions. Thanks =)

[naturegirl321]

Asia might be nice. In Latin America, you could get casual work, but might not get visas.

[ithos]

Thanks, yes I'm thinking mostly of Asia at the moment, Taiwan in particular as it sounds like a nicer place to live than S Korea and I could learn Mandarin while I'm there.

It seems like experience or at least a face to face interview is needed for most Latin American jobs and I'd really rather have a job set up before I go this being my first adventure abroad on my own.

Anyone any advice regarding recruiting agencies? It sounds like an easy way to get set up for the first time...

Also when you do a CELTA course do they offer you any jobs or recruiting services on completion? Thanks again =)

[Smeagol]

Wow, that's pretty open-ended.

What about South Korea? Threads on here seem to indicate salary to cost of living ratio there is much better than Taiwan, even one of the best in the world. I don't think anyone ever had to work 40 hour weeks there, either. I've met several colleagues over the years who had worked in Korea, and they all said about the same thing: good salary, plenty of savings when they left, not much of a social life, but not particularly difficult work, either. Plenty of scope for beginners, such as yourself...

Just a thought.

However, if I were 23, I wouldn't consider either of those places. I'd think about somewhere where I could have some serious fun, the heck with the salary! Morocco, Thailand, Cambodia... maybe a little difficult these days to just show up and find a job in Morocco as a beginner, but not in Thailand...

Always recommended to do your CELTA (or other reputable course, like Trinity) where you think you'd like to work. Even if there's not a strong placement program, you'll get to know the area, see if you really like it, you'll have some contacts, you'll be on the spot for interviews, you'll be available immediately (and many schools need someone very quickly when they actually do need staff)... many advantages to doing that...

Good luck, whatever you decide!

[ithos]

I've pretty much crossed S Korea off the list for the moment, I didn't like the sound of poor social life and general dislike of foreigners to begin with and now with the failing Won I can't even convince myself that it would be a good place to build a travelling fund.

Taiwan from what I've read has a better social life than S Korea, can anyone tell me anything about it? Whats nightlife like in Taipei for instance? I would like to make friends with local people as well as colleagues, what is the general attitude to foreigners like in Taiwan? I've heard in general Taiwanese people are quite friendly?

Cambodia I really want to go to but the big problem is not being able to get a job before going there. I've never been there either so I'd like to take a look around first and make sure I can handle it before committing to moving there.

Thailand not so much because of a few reasons, mainly harsh government and visa/paperwork/bureaucracy. Morocco I hadn't even thought of, thanks I'll look into it =)

[Smeagol]

Hi, Ithos

Not good reasons to cross Thailand off your list! Cross it off because of poor salary to cost of living ratio, yes, but not for "harsh" government or paperwork! Unless you plan to teach in a government primary or middle school, as a foreigner, you'd likely never even notice that there is a government. I was in Bangkok (serendipitously) the evening of and day after the last coup; it was quite pleasant because of the lack of traffic. You may have to do a visa run once you land a job, but there's a Thai consulate in Vientiane, Laos, right across the border, and I (and many other people) find a day or two in Vientiane very nice, indeed.

Of course, you could line up a job before you go quite easily, but you're likely to find something much, much better if you just go and take a CELTA course there. At your age, schools of all sorts would be falling over themselves to hire you, I assure you (Thais adore young western teachers). The teaching itself is not demanding, but neither is it particularly rewarding (Thais just aren't serious about anything like actually studying).

I'm not particularly recommending it to you, because I have no idea what you like, or what you're like. But I'd hate to see you dismiss Thailand for the wrong reasons. Dismiss it , if you will, for the right reason, though - lousy pay. Check out ajarn.com for excellent info on teaching in Thailand, but don't get confused by references in the forums to paperwork problems - these are either teachers in government primary/middle schools, or individuals with no qualifications of any kind, not even a Bachelor's degree in any field, posing as teachers (quite easy to do in Thailand).

Good luck!

[ithos]

Hi Smeagol, thanks for the informative responses, you're right actually I had formed the opinion on Thai government being 'harsh' from seeing lots of complaints about Visa difficulties and the likes.

Also noticed something about some 'cultural induction' course and very difficult inservice training exams that most people even trained teachers fail! I presume these are only be for government schools then yes?

I'd noticed the pay to costs ratio too alright and that is of course a factor for me too especially as I won't have much of a nest egg to draw on if needed.

Vientiane sounds like a very nice place, but from what I've read a bit quiet to live in (early closing times for bars, small population, etc.), would you say thats about right? Also anyone any info on Luah Prabang (sp)? Are there any teaching jobs there?

And last thing, can you tell me anything about life and teaching in Cambodia? I'm intrigued by the place, it seems to have everything from culture, nature, reasonable pay to cost ratio, great social life, beautiful local women, the works! But... I'd really like to hear from people who've been or even better lived there for a while so I can get a better picture of what it's really like. I read khmer440 forum a bit but not much info on teaching there and it seems more just a place for people living there to chat to each other.

The more I think of it I'm getting closer to picking final destination, it's now between Taiwan and Cambodia I think, I've yet to hear much about Vietnam but from what I read on this forum and a few others it doesn't sound too bad, any thoughts on Vietnam?

Cheers for the tip on doing the CELTA in the country I choose and ajarn.com Smeagol, all info very much appreciated!

[Smeagol]

Hi, again, Ithos

Glad to help a newcomer to the field. Yes, the Thai cultural course and the methods training and exams are only for the government schools at this point, but all things subject to change in Thailand. Having said that, it doesn't seem likely there'd be any reason to extend that stuff to people teaching adults or teaching in private schools. Hasn't happened in the couple or few years since that stuff was introduced, and doen't seem like they'd do it now.

I have never taught in Cambodia, but have been there a few times, and once traveled a bit around the country. I had a couple of colleagues who taught there for some time and had nothing but good to say. However, I'm not so sure that a newcomer to the field could easily land a job there - and can't even give you any advice except use the internet. Don't think I'd go on spec and really expect to get anything immediately, and don't think you'll find a TEFL course there, but I may be very wrong on that last one - you should google it, and check the UCLES and Trinity websites. There's an Australian outfit that has a big teaching operation there and advertises from time to time, you should google that, too.

Vientiane is a little more interesting than the picture you've painted. Actually, a lot more interesting. I found the nightlife to be just fine! Had a job offer, too, after looking only one day, but teaching rugrats, not my cup of tea. Again, probably not much room for a newcomer to teaching.

Can't say a thing about Viet Nam, except that salaries to cost of living look good on paper... Isn't there a Viet Nam forum on here? You could start there.

Good idea doing your research before you make a move. I'm being a bit telegraphic with this one, as it's time for me to sign off.

Again, best of luck!

[naturegirl321]

Ok for Korea, or any coutry, you can't generalise and say there's no social life and they hate foreigners. I've lived in seven countries and Korea was the best.

ANy contry is what you make of it. Same goes for the nightlife. Big cities usually hve a better nightlife than smaller ones. And there are TONS of foreigners in Seoul and Taipei.

For Cambodia, do a serch, I know there was a poster who was there for years and had helpful posts, but I don't know if he's still on the boards.

[Chancellor]

"Best," of course, is a subjective term. What might be best for one person might not be best for another even if their circumstances are identical.

[ithos]

Thanks for the info again Smeagol, once again very informative =)

I didn't mean from anything I said to imply there was NO social life or they HATE foreigners, I was observing the general attitude of the posts I've read regarding S Korea and giving my opinion on circumstances there as they may relate to me, subjectively =) Of course you will know better having lived there but I'm just working with what I've got.

I know its often said on these forums that only people with complaints make posts but from my perspective, going on what I've read I subjectively conclude that S Korea is not the place for me, though I would like to learn Kwun Gyok Do I will have to settle for something else.

[sojourner]

Ithos,

Have you ever considered China ?

With a Master's degree, it should be fairly easy for you to land a uni job. After a bit of negotiation, you might end up being offered 5 K RMB - or even 5.5 K - for, maybe, 14 or 16 "teaching hours" pw ( in China, a "teaching hour" varies between 40-50 minutes).Occasionally, you might even be offered a job involving ony 12 "teaching hours", such as my own.I teach only three mornings pw (M,W Fr, from 8 to 11.10 am - thus, plenty of spare time ! You'll also be provided with your own furnished flat (usually 1-bedroom, occasionally 2-bedrooms - but, sometimes, just a bedsitter or studio apartment).The flats are usually on-campus, or maybe a few minutes walk away.Also, your employer will offer you an airfare reimbursement - usually 8 K RMB - but, if you think that it's inadequate, then you could possibly negotiate.Also, there are other possible perks such as free utilities and drinking water, meal vouchers, taxi allowance, free Chinese lessons, weekly bus ticket to the nearest large city, etc

With your academic background, you might even be offered the opportunity to teach subjects that are far more interesting than the more usual Oral English, such as British/American Societies, Western Culture, and Intercultural Communication.If your own degree course includes any business subjects, you might want to teach subjects such as Business English, Business Writing and Business Communication.

I recall that you said that you would prefer to have a job lined up for you before arriving in the country of your choice.With Chinese jobs, the phone interview/negotiations, paper work (signing of contract, visa forms,etc) are all done before arriving in China !

Outside of places such as Shanghai and Guanzhou, the cost of living is v.low.I am able to survive on just 500 RMB per month (only just, mind you !) - thus, I am able to save the bulk of my salary (6.5 K).A good meal (eg barbecue chicken fillet/vegies and a large beer, in my town, only costs 7 RMB !

With plenty of spare time, you would be able to moonlight !

Check Dave's China jobs site for vacancies.Also, do a google search for the names/email addresses of FAOs at colleges/unis - try "China Universities Rankings" to get a list of unis.

Some unis are better than others.V.few, however, will be on the same level as to what you have in Ireland or the UK. At best, the standard will probably be on the same level as a technical college or polytechnic.Some posters have recently suggested giving the "top level" unis a miss, especially those that might have JV connections with Western unis - same pay as elsewhere (maybe a bit more if at a JV setup), but also more stress ! I'm currently teaching at a mid-level, or 2nd tier, uni - it's great !

Thus, you should consider China !

Peter

[Marcoregano]

You can survive on 500 RMB per month? Stunning. I spent that much on dinner yesterday. Yes I know it's all relative, but even so ... So that means you can save around 20K RMB a month? I doubt many teachers in HK can save that much, even if they're earning three times your salary.

[sojourner]

Marco,

20 K RMB per month ? No, not as much as that ! My current salary is 6.5 K per month - after my (v.basic) living expenses, I can save 6 K per month.

The 500 per month that I mentioned is only for food when I'm still teaching (During holiday breaks, if I'm in Shanghai. I'll spend "a bit more"!). But normally, for breakfast and lunch, I only have bread rolls with peanut butter, and coffee.I usually have a large dinner, which, at a food stall or hole-in-the-wall eatery, works out to about 7 RMB ! Maybe, once every fortnight or so, I might splurge out at a restaurant one or two levels above one of the aforementioned el cheapo places and have something like sizzling beef, rice, french fries and a large beer for about 29 RMB. Maybe, in other towns, the same sort of meals might work out a bit more than 500 RMB. Also, I don't smoke, drink v.little, and never go to KFC , upmarket coffee places and bars.

Having a (rent-free) flat on campus means no daily travelling costs.Also, for my flat, there is no cost for utilities (including internet access).

Yes, I probably am much better off than a typical NET teacher.Many, I'd imagine, to save money have to live in a tiny bedsitter/studio apartment way out in the sticks, and spend a long time every day commuting on the MTR, buses, etc, in order to get to work.Also, how many can save the HK equivalent of 6 K RMB, and still eat out everyone night, albeit at el cheapo eateries ?

Apart from the money factor, I consider myself much better off than a typical NET.I work only three mornings pw, 12 "teaching hours" (about 8 normal hours).How many hours pw does the typical NET work - 20, maybe ? I have almost complete control of what, and how, I teach. NETs, I'd imagine, have to strictly follow a set curriculum, follow directions from central office bureaucrats,have interviews with cranky parents, etc.Oh, have I already mentioned, nil travelling time and my spacious(rent-free) flat ? I've been a secondary teacher in my homecountry, and have also worked in the public service - give me a uni job in China anytime ! Far more financially and professionally rewarding - also, far less stressful, I might add.

So, Marco, when will you be coming over to the Mainland to work ?!


Peter

[ithos]

Sounds great Peter, better than great actually! I'm certainly going to give it some thought and read up on the China forum.

My MA is in Environmental Planning so has nothing at all to do with education do you still think I'd have a chance of landing a Uni job in China?

Please bear in mind I have no teaching experience but I will take a CELTA course before starting the job so I'll hopefully have some idea of what I'm doing when I arrive.

The saving potential of where you are is amazing, but what is the city you are in like? And how is the social life and environment there?

Thanks!

Simon