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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| If there are tons of teachers wiling to work for low salaries, why would they hire me, who expects a higher slary? |
Why would they hire a newbie if they can get an experienced teacher for the same price? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Marcoregano wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| If there are tons of teachers wiling to work for low salaries, why would they hire me, who expects a higher slary? |
Why would they hire a newbie if they can get an experienced teacher for the same price? |
Beats me, but it was common practise at my school to hire newbies from abroad, pay them more, give them flights, �y their taxes and get them visas. Maybe because they're from abroad. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Smeagol wrote: |
Hi, again, Nature Girl
Have you thought about the Gulf? People with lesser qualifications than you seem to have (I presume you have a first degree, since you're working on an MA, and a CELTA or equivalent) are making good salaries and socking away goodly sums of hard cash. You may have to settle for a less desirable area (rural Oman?), but not Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. I've worked in Asia, I've worked in the Gulf. I'll take the latter, every time, now that I'm married. It's not party time like Asia, but then you say you're not a party animal, anyway... the Gulf is fine for we book curler-uppers (or internet game addicts, like me). |
I have, but I'm married and don't know what my husband would do. IN Asia, he could work. Anyways, I think I got a good job offer, but don't want to jinx anything until I sign. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 524
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: But you'll make MUCH more than a local! |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
I've had more than a couple of job offers and I've heard this a lot. For example, when they ask me how much I expect to make, I say, what I deserve based on my qualifications and experience and wait for them to give me a number. The last one told me that ALL teachers start with X. o it doesn't matter if you are fresh out of HS, like a couple of the teachers on their website or have an MA and lots of experience.
Their reasoning is that you'll get paid much more than a local. But then again, what local has the expenses that a foreign teacher has? The typical young local teacher probably still lives with their family, so pays no utilities. Doesn't have oversea phone calls to parents to make. Knows where to shop. Can speak the langauge so they can bargain. They don't take taxis. And they're probably not paying for food either. Nor do they have to settle and and purchase things, lots pots and pans. |
When I worked in Thailand, I heard this a lot. But, the attitude I took was that I brought more to the table as an MATEFL-educated, native speaker than any of the locals did. You don't get a discount on a 'Mercedes' just because the local salaries are lower so why should it be any different for another kind of import? Plus, foreign teachers are real money makers for language institutes so should get at least a reasonable salary. Am I wrong here?
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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taht's what gets me to, is that people accept it. Maybe it's because of the lifestyle. You can live well, hit the bars when you like. All great for someone fresh out of uni, but as an old 26 year old with 6 years experience, I'd rather curl up with a good book and drink hot chocolate. |
Nature girl read this:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
Sorry to burst your bubble but part of it is definitely economics. Furthermore, in my honest opinion, having a B.A. and a M.A. in TESOL probably will not really matter when it comes to many jobs. By that I mean, that if one is working in a public school in Korea or Japan that knowing what your are doing or not may be of little relevance due to actually being allowed to do something. Not to mention the limits to what can be achieved in a classroom of 30 to 50 kids. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
Nature girl read this:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
Sorry to burst your bubble but part of it is definitely economics. Furthermore, in my honest opinion, having a B.A. and a M.A. in TESOL probably will not really matter when it comes to many jobs. By that I mean, that if one is working in a public school in Korea or Japan that knowing what your are doing or not may be of little relevance due to actually being allowed to do something. Not to mention the limits to what can be achieved in a classroom of 30 to 50 kids. |
Darn, I hate having my bubble burst. Now in Peru, I guess I'm making decent money, just teaching 19 hours a week, private classes, but there's no job security, retirement plan, medical, paid vacatoin etc. ANd I'd really like to get out of Peru. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
Have you actually interviewed in Japan? I seem to recall you were looking there as a next haven, but don't remember any interviews in Japan as yet. If so, yours would be the first experience I've ever heard of an employer telling you that.
As for getting the same pay after 5 years, perhaps it's time to think about a few things.
1. Are you in the same exact position?
2. Did you ever get supplemental training?
3. Did you ever get a higher degree?
4. Have you published?
Any of the above could affect your base salary, but it can also be country-specific, I suppose. |
Japan, no, seems like it's too early for a Sept start.
I'm in a different position
LOTS of supp training
In the process of an MA,
nope, not unless you count the internet.
BUt, I've given workshops at nat and intl conferences and have become an ESOL examiner, that shoudl count for something  |
It counts only if that's the type of work involved (and that happens to be fairly rare in Japan). They usually just want a warm body.
| Quote: |
| Why would they hire a newbie if they can get an experienced teacher for the same price? |
Some employers would rather get the newbie, because they may not operate completely on the up and up, and it's easier to fool newbies with certain business practices.
Some employers may also want their teachers to have that "fresh off the banana boat" appeal. Making mistakes and fumbling with the language so that the only thing they CAN speak is their own L1. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Some employers would rather get the newbie, because they may not operate completely on the up and up, and it's easier to fool newbies with certain business practices.
Some employers may also want their teachers to have that "fresh off the banana boat" appeal. Making mistakes and fumbling with the language so that the only thing they CAN speak is their own L1. |
Some schools would never want a western trained teacher. A trained teacher would complain when they saw the educational practices in use. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Some employers would rather get the newbie, because they may not operate completely on the up and up, and it's easier to fool newbies with certain business practices.
Some employers may also want their teachers to have that "fresh off the banana boat" appeal. Making mistakes and fumbling with the language so that the only thing they CAN speak is their own L1. |
Someone who is really interested in teaching would not want to be some schools promotional tool.
I used to work in a high school. They did not give the kids real grades for the foreigners English class or discipline the students during the foreign teachers English class. Let me tell you it was a real circus. |
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Tainan
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: |
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I think the OP's point about the different needs of a local and an expat are reasonable. In China I made about 4-5 hundred USD a month--and lived nicely but far from grandly on it. A Chinese professor, with a far more demanding workload, made only a fraction of that. A concierge at a hotel made less than 100 USD a month. But you are there with the idea of travelling around the country; you have airfare to pay for; and you are not going to live on stewed cabbage every day. (that's not a joke. The working-class guys in my neighborhood ate a bowl or rice with stewed-cabbage for lunch every day. Once in a while there would be a few bits of pork in the cabbage.) And indeed, you are not going to be living with your parents or washing all your clothes in the sink. So unless the country's ESL schools want to recruit their teachers exclusively from among missionaries and volunteers, of course they are going to pay a foreigner more than a local teacher.
On the other hand, the schools are not being unreasonable in pointing this out. They are offering what by the scale of their local economy is a lot of money--they are telling you the perspective in which to view the salary they are offering--since if you were in New York and didn't know about the cost of living in China, when you heard 400 USD a month you might imagine poverty, whereas in China that is rather nice.
Here's where I realized the difference in perspective. On Christmas morning I invited a few friends from the local Catholic church back to my home. On the way we were to stop at a market to buy some food. We stood on a freezing day waiting for the bus. The bus cost, I think 1RMB--perhaps about 30 cents. I proposed taking a taxi: we were four people, and the taxi would have cost 8RMB--in other words two each, or about 60 cents. No, they said, let's just wait for the bus. We stood freezing for another ten minutes or so. Suddenly I woke up from dementia. I routinely paid 20-30 RMB for taxi rides into town--why not just pay the 8 for the short ride to the market? But the preference for the bus I think wasn't just economic but rather cultural; taking a taxi is something one simply does not do.
Yes, none of this is relevent to countries such as Switzerland or Japan. I think that ought to have been quite clear from the context. |
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