Job Discussion Forums

LateStarter · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: NO CONTRACT BUT COME ANYWAY

Hope you can help me with the following:

I've just received an e-mail from an english language franchise school in China - please come on over - but alas there was no contract - only a suggestion that the schol would arrange the Z-visa when I got there, and assist me with housing.

Could anyone advise me if this is the way some schools operate.

Many thanks
LateStarter

Mister Al · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 840 Location: In there

oh no no no no. Insist on seeing a contract then take it from there.

donb2222 · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 134

They want you to pay all the expenses for an in person interview ?
That is crazy.

If you want to visit China anyway, and you have plenty of extra money for the trip, than you might consider it.

But, if you are seriously seeking a job, then insist upon seeing a contract first.

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

I agree that you should not accept their offer. Are they paying your airfare? If you can afford it, it would be a good idea to come to China for a holiday, and see if you would enjoy teaching here. Other than airfare, it can be fairly economical if you research. You can observe working conditions as well. I used to be of the opinion to come on a tourist visa, look around, find a job and then sort out the legal requirements before working.

However, since the Olympics, and maybe earlier, it is getting more difficult to get legal working status arranged in country. Even crossing over to Hong Kong is dicey now. Some have reported success in going to Hong Kong, getting a z-visa issued there and re-entering the mainland. Some have reported no success. The official line in Hong Kong is NO.

In short, if you can't afford a holiday, then don't come over on anything but a z-visa.

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

OP, Some schools do operate as illustrated here. Those are the schools that you definitely do not want to work for.

To be sure, ask them to arrange your air ticket at their expense, prior to arrival. They'll laugh, light a cigarette, and forget you. Same thing they could very well do after you arrive at your own expense.

Orrin · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 206 Location: Zhuhai, China

LateStarter,

DON'T DO IT! No school can arrange a Z visa for you once you are here. They are trying to set you up. Drop this school like a hot potato.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

theincredibleegg · Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 224

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

"The signing of the contract overseas really has no bearing on wheither a school will abide by the contract...the issuing of a z has no promise attached that it is infact a legal z.. one got through the right channels...or that the school issuing the z is actually the school.. if it is in fact a school....could be a factory .... rather than ask questions here.. try and get some information on current FTs and ask them the skinny..."

Pardon? This sounds nonsensical. Schools don't issue "Z"visas. They provide you with documents which allow you to receive a "Z" visa from a consulate, prior to coming to China.

What is a legal "Z"? Are there illegal "Z" visas?

olabueno · Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Posts: 80 Location: Tampa

Yeah, I've found that the language schools like WEB Intl. for example (at least the Web. franchise in Hangzhou) want you to sign the contract once you arrive. It doesn't mean they are trying to screw you. Use your judgment, talk to a few current teachers. Ask them about being paid on time, hours, conditions, etc.

Think about it, if they are willing to sponsor you (visa) they ARE making a commitment to you. I wouldn't drop it simply b/c of this issue.

Ask them to send you a "sample" contract to assuage your fears. Then you can read between the lines and get a feel for the expectations.

suanlatudousi · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 384

A contract, signed prior to your arrival, in and of itself, means NOTHING. If you sign a contract so that they can get your invitation letter, and allow you get your Z visa prior to arrival ... well, that's another matter.

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

Z Visas and contracts are entirely separate matters.

Your school arranges and sends you the documents to obtain a Z visa.

The Z visa allows you to enter China and then sign a contract.

You should be provided a copy of contract that you will be asked to sign before you agree to the job.

Signing a contract from abroad is meaningless.

My rule of thumb is this: Never sign a contract until you have inspected, in person, the living quarters your employer proposes to offer you. That is the single best indicator of how your proposed employer intends to maintain his end of your contract.

For me, a Z visa and a copy of the contract they expect me to sign are a must before before going abroad.

You have to choose what level of risk you feel is comfortable.

I have never heard a valid explanation offered as to why a school that could issue a z visa would not do so before the teacher arrived.

I realize it is convenient for the school; being able to discard someone (with legal impunity) they asked to fly half way around the world with the promise of a job. I just wouldn't feel comfortable being in that position.

But, you have to go with what feels right for you.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

platinum peyote · Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:21 am Post subject:

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217