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justaprofessional
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Location: London
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 Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who worked with Westgate a few years ago, I have stated that Glenski (who works in a university) would simply NOT be hired with his credentials.
That being said, we shouldn't attack the Westgate accredited teaching staff. They are ALL very qualified, but most have little experience in Japan and have simply responded to a job ad, gone through the hiring process successfully, and been hired.
The real HEISTERS are Westgate.
With good marketing they have attracted good staff. Now they pitch them to universities.
The former vacation pay, start-up costs, insurance, etc. do not go to the new temp staff...it goes to Westgate. With Westgate salaries minus the benefits, the relatively low money (for qualified and professional teachers) goes from universities into the hands of Westgate's boss.
Do not discount the money value of vacation pay.
The weakness for Westgate is in the performance of their teaching staff.
Westgate staff have their fingers crossed that their latest temp hires deliver the goods. Who will be late one time when they miss the train? Who will forget the attendance sheet? Who will fail a student? All have Westgate sleepless at night.
Can these new teachers deliver? Will they deliver? With 3 month contracts and few perks will these qualified teachers satisfy the universities in which they are placed?
Or will they wake up and see what's going on. Then Westgate loses all the contracts and folds and things go back to the way they should be.
Universities hiring their own qualified teachers and giving them the offers which qualified teachers deserve.
Hopefully Westgate will soon go back to supplying Kindy teachers to schools in Hokkaido.
Hopefully Japanese universities will see what money-hungry dispatch companies are all about. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Accredited courses |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| I think there are two groups of people that express highly negative opinions about Westgate. Those that were put out of their cushy university jobs as a full professor when Westgate offered a lower cost alternative (loosing your job is a hardship, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who did). |
Actually, hate to say it, but the first group doesn't exist. I.e., there are no "full professors" losing "their cushy (  ) university jobs" because of Westgate. Glenski, like most sennin kyouin in Japan, has tenure. There are (or were--many have stopped) a number of other foreigners with tenure posting to this list as well--including myself. Our jobs can't be cut...hence, really, Westgate doesn't impact us at all.
Westgate adversely impacts most Dave's ESL Cafe posters, though, and here's why. Demographic and budgeting issues in Japan are causing all Japanese universities (including even Kyoudai and Toudai) to tighten their fiscal belts. Accordingly, along with hiring freezes for full-time sennin (so-called "cushy") positions, a number of universities (including Kyoto!) drastically slashed their direct hire hijoukin (part-time) numbers last year. Both trends--eerily similar to what's been happening in Japanese high schools and junior high schools over the last eight years--seem likely to continue.
In other words, the people potentially impacted most include many of those now applying to the Westgate positions in the first place--i.e., those who normally would have qualified for a direct hire position as a hijoukin (or even a joukin or sennin), but chose the easier (Westgate) route instead. Increasingly, and just like with the ALT positions, the resulting expansion of dispatch hires will eventually cause the number of direct-hire gigs to dry up. In other words, and we're already seeing this in some prefectures (including the one I'm in now), people without a full-time position will soon find it very difficult to find steady, reliable and well-paying part-time work. Most of the part-time work will now go instead to full-timers already working at other local universities (offers for fall gigs are sitting on my desk now). Eventually, dispatch companies will take up a good part of the remaining slack. Good luck to new job seekers looking for direct hires then! 
| Quote: |
| The value of a forum like Dave�s is to pass on accurate information to help fellow teachers, not to grind your axe. |
I think most people commenting in this thread are doing exactly that--i.e., give opinions in good faith and in a reasonably polite fashion. Moreover, I' d say most, including myself, could care less whether the advice is taken or not. We're not your parents, after all, and your choice impacts most (all?) of us not a bit.
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| Westgate is fairly unique in offering short-term contracts with a full menu of benefits. I am in a position in life were I value a lot of time off and the freedom of not being tied down to a long-term contract. I submit Westgate offers the best short-term contract in all of the worldwide ESL industry. If anyone can name a better one, I would be VERY interested to hear about it. |
 Yeah, given all those qualifiers and conditions, I dare say I agree with you! In particular, that visa they sponsor is really nice. Also, (along with JET and those eikaiwas that still hire from overseas) it remains a decent way to test the waters here, so to speak. Still, all this would-be personal attack stuff about people you've never met, not to mention this pretending that it's some great gig or that the company has no negative impact on the direct-hire situation here, is a bit silly. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| justaprofessional wrote: |
| Someone with a masters in chemistry such as you simply would not be hired by Westgate for accredited courses. Maybe to teach kindergarten if you have a TEFL certificate and can keep up with the kiddies. |
Nice cheap shot! Given that Glenski's university emphasizes mainly the sciences and engineering, why wouldn't they want someone with a CELTA and a Masters (with publications) in at least one related subject area?
The sad thing is that, like other threads on Westgate over the years, personal shots like the one above will eventually get edited out, leaving mainly the increasingly angry responses from people like Glenski. Unfortunately, it will also seem to later readers that Glenski was unnecessarily abrupt in his responses--I've seen up to 40% of such threads moderated out, with the quotes remaining seeming bizarre in their new contexts.
Personally, again, I could care less whether people work for Interac, Westgate, Geos, Berlitz, etc.--do what the heck you want! Still, why the personal attacks on Glenski, one of the few helpful and knowledgeable people who still bothers to post in the Japan section of the forum?  |
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justaprofessional
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| justaprofessional wrote: |
| Someone with a masters in chemistry such as you simply would not be hired by Westgate for accredited courses. Maybe to teach kindergarten if you have a TEFL certificate and can keep up with the kiddies. |
Nice cheap shot! Given that Glenski's university emphasizes mainly the sciences and engineering, why wouldn't they want someone with a CELTA and a Masters (with publications) in at least one related subject area?
The sad thing is that, like other threads on Westgate over the years, personal shots like the one above will eventually get edited out, leaving mainly the increasingly angry responses from people like Glenski. Unfortunately, it will also seem to later readers that Glenski was unnecessarily abrupt in his responses--I've seen up to 40% of such threads moderated out, with the quotes remaining seeming bizarre in their new contexts.
Personally, again, I could care less whether people work for Interac, Westgate, Geos, Berlitz, etc.--do what the heck you want! Still, why the personal attacks on Glenski, one of the few helpful and knowledgeable people who still bothers to post in the Japan section of the forum? |
Yeah, sure, whatever a true academic like yourself (at least according to you) wants to say.
Mod EDIT
His masters degree is not in Education, but in chemistry. You can spin your arguement all you want, but a Masters in Chemistry teaching English to students just may be one of the reasons why the level of English is still so low in Japan after all the years and all the billions of Yen/
That's a fact.
It's a reason why some see Westgate as a threat. |
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passport220
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| ....Actually, hate to say it, but the first group doesn't exist. I.e., there are no "full professors" losing "their cushy ( ) university jobs"...... |
Glenski, earlier in this thread said he had �friends and colleagues� who lost their job to Westgate. I talked to Westgate teachers who said they knew individuals who lost their job when Westgate came around. You say it is not so, have it your way.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Yeah, given all those qualifiers and conditions, I dare say I agree with you!..... |
It is one condition only and an easy one to understand at that, Westgate offers short term contracts. It is either a major advantage or disadvantage depending on your wants and needs.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Still, all this would-be personal attack stuff about people you've never met, ... |
I am certain I attacked no one personally. If you disagree, please name who was attacked.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| ...not to mention this pretending that it's some great gig�. |
I have worked for Westgate and found them to be fair and professional in every aspect of the employment relationship. If you read and understand the contract that Westgate is offering and it meets your needs, Westgate will hold up their end. I am not �pretending� anything when I say that. It is my true feeling and I stand behind it. The quality of the �gig� is really judged by each individual based on there own preferences and how a job matches them.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| ... or that the company has no negative impact on the direct-hire situation here, is a bit silly. |
I do not now, nor do I see myself making an employment decision in the foreseeable future based on how my decision might affect the �direct-hire situation�. As a supplier of teaching services I feel it is wise to measure the market conditions and act based on those conditions as opposed to trying to steer the market to what I would prefer. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| Glenski, earlier in this thread said he had �friends and colleagues� who lost their job to Westgate. I talked to Westgate teachers who said they knew individuals who lost their job when Westgate came around. You say it is not so, have it your way. |
No full professors (kyouju) have lost their jobs. Direct-hire "hijoukin," "shouhei," "tokunin," and/or "gaikokujin kyoushi"--collectively better referred to as "adjuncts"--have lost their jobs. Don't think you could call these particular positions "cushy," though. 
| Quote: |
| I am certain I attacked no one personally. If you disagree, please name who was attacked. |
Poor phrasing on my part--I wasn't talking particularly about you there. Still, I must say that your blanket statement below was a bit inflammatory:
| Quote: |
| think there are two groups of people that express highly negative opinions about Westgate. Those that were put out of their cushy university jobs as a full professor when Westgate offered a lower cost alternative (loosing your job is a hardship, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who did). The second group are those who have a fantasy that the ESL industry could become unionized in Japan. |
Glenski--indeed, most likely everyone who's posted so far--fits neither definition.
| Quote: |
| I have worked for Westgate and found them to be fair and professional in every aspect of the employment relationship. If you read and understand the contract that Westgate is offering and it meets your needs, Westgate will hold up their end. I am not �pretending� anything when I say that. It is my true feeling and I stand behind it. The quality of the �gig� is really judged by each individual based on there own preferences and how a job matches them. |
Fair enough.
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| I do not now, nor do I see myself making an employment decision in the foreseeable future based on how my decision might affect the �direct-hire situation�. As a supplier of teaching services I feel it is wise to measure the market conditions and act based on those conditions as opposed to trying to steer the market to what I would prefer. |
I disagree, but I do understand your position. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| justaprofessional wrote: |
| Someone with a masters in chemistry such as you... |
My master's degree is not in chemistry.
MOD EDIT
But let's look at what Westgate advertises that they want. From their homepage, university teachers have been grouped into 3 categories based on credentials.
First group.
Teaching experience
1. EFL/ESL teaching experience
2. Less than 499 hours of classroom teaching* experience (including non-EFL/ESL)
Qualification
1. Native speaker of English
2. Bachelor's or higher degree
3. EFL/ESL teaching certificate/degree and/or elementary/primary/secondary teaching credentials/qualifications
I have all of the above.
Second group.
Teaching experience
1. EFL/ESL teaching experience
2. 500 plus hours of classroom teaching* experience (including non-EFL/ESL)
Qualification
1. Native speaker of English
2. Bachelor's or higher degree
3. EFL/ESL teaching certificate/degree and/or elementary/primary/secondary teaching credentials/qualifications
I have all of the above.
Third group.
Teaching experience
1. EFL/ESL teaching experience
2. 1000 plus hours of classroom teaching* experience (including non-EFL/ESL)
Qualification
1. Native speaker of English
2. Bachelor's or higher degree
3. With or without any of the above certificates/credentials/qualifications
I have all of the above.
Readers will also notice that the exact major is not listed here, so unless WC has something more explicit, I'd be in. So, trying to say I cannot be hired by Westgate based on experience or credentials is totally false. Now, would I want to work the hours WC requires for that paltry pay (260,000-275,000 yen/month)?
| Quote: |
This teaching position is a full-time, Monday-through-Friday position. Instructors are occasionally asked to participate in events that may be held on holidays. On rare occasions, instructors are asked to assist with "open campus" and other student recruiting programs. Occasionally, training workshops will be held on holidays when necessary.
On-Campus Hours:
On-campus work hours will differ from school to school (e.g., 8:50 a.m. - 5:50 p.m., 9:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m., 10:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m., 11:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m.). Pursuant to Westgate's contract with our university and junior college clients, our instructors are to be physically present at their assigned campus for nine consecutive hours each teaching day. The "on-campus" hours do NOT include commuting time.
Teaching Schedule:
Each school day typically consists of 9-12 40-minute class periods for extracurricular courses and 4-5 90-minute periods for accredited courses. Instructors will teach a maximum of seven classes a day, requiring one to four lesson plans. In addition, instructors will have one or two preparation periods and one period for a break. Instructors will spend the rest of her/his day for lunch and what we call "English Challenge," in which students can freely talk to instructors, ask specific questions about English or study special topics. |
Nope, but perhaps a newbie would. It's up to them and their circumstances.
Now, if your comment:
| Quote: |
| Sadly, you don't know what is happening now. |
means that WC's website is untrue or misleading, then we have no way to know. Unless we work for WC, what else do we have to go on? I am no longer in touch with anyone who used to work there.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| No full professors (kyouju) have lost their jobs. Direct-hire "hijoukin," "shouhei," "tokunin," and/or "gaikokujin kyoushi"--collectively better referred to as "adjuncts"--have lost their jobs. |
Thank you for correcting what I wrote. Those titles and their recent changes have always confused many of us in the uni system, including the Japanese! And, yes, it is clear that some people on this thread do not understand what the word cushy means. Sounds more like envy, but it is still misinformed. Please come to the PALE group on the Yahoo listserv or look up PALE Special Interest Group (SIG) on the JALT website to know more. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| justaprofessional wrote: |
| You can spin your arguement all you want, but a Masters in Chemistry teaching English to students just may be one of the reasons why the level of English is still so low in Japan after all the years and all the billions of Yen |
MOD EDIT
Actually, the reason the level of English is so low is because like many language teachers in many other E.Asian countries (and others worldwide), JTEs like to focus grammar, reading and writing and they tend to avoid any real pragmatic, speaking or listening teaching. In many cases this is due to the JTE not having good English themself and having to rely solely on dictating from a text book in order to teach.
I was an Applied Languages major (including linguistics) at uni who got to be the minority English person in classes full of Japanese and Chinese students. One thing that became very quickly apparent was that whilst their reading and writing skills were often very good, their lack of practice in speaking and listening became very clear as soon I addressed them using typical spoken English as apposed to the formal written structures they had drilled and memorised in their classes.
In our pragmatics or NVC based classes such as language and the media or culture and communication, they were dumbfounded by the ways we could manipulate one utterance to so many effects; they especially depised any lectures on loctionary, illocutionary and perloctionary forces/meanings or the conversationally (Grice's) maxims. And having had only JTEs teaching them English in the past, they had no grasp of NVC in English.
Yet, in syntax based units they would excel. They always had a grasp of the English grammar rules that normally far exceeded that of any native speaker (at the time, myself included).
It doesn't matter whether WC is employing such supposedly high-calibre recruits for their uni contracts. The fact is, in the earlier years of language aquisition that really count (which is normally up to about puberty) the children are still being subjected to the traditional JTE's approach as their main source learning. |
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Revenant
Mod Team
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 1109
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Keep it civil. If discussions begin to turn more towards personal attacks and insults instead of discussing/debating in the thread, especially after this warning, those involved will face sanctions that could include the deactivation of their account.
Additionally, please remember to use the report feature first to report issues with a poster or a thread. Calling for moderators to handle a complaint in a thread is not appropriate. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting to see comments about Westgate's accredited classes. Westgate and other agencies are sending people to teach both accredited and nonaccredited classes at unis, often in violation of a law passed last year. The unis themselves sometimes try to get around it by labeling classes adult education ones, or putting them in quasi-departments, hence getting around the law requiring 'regular' classes to be taught by only university lecturers, etc.
Yes, taikibansei is correct in stating that it affects part-timers' ability to get more work as courses that should be offered to current part-time staff are not. As to why full time uni staff need to take on other work, this is another matter, but this is one to take up at many unis that now like to offer 4 and 3 workday contracts. Hence with the lower salaries they now offer, they are 'expecting' their full timers to work elsewhere to make a living on a comfortable salary. |
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