Job Discussion Forums

[Neilhrd]

As many of you will know I am a DOS for the GAC University Entry Preparation programme in Nanning.

GAC is a high level course and we have great difficulty in recruiting students who have sufficient foundation to cope with it. The standard of teaching in Nanning high schools is so awful that less than 1% of high school graduates has more than elementary English. Perhaps more worrying is that most candidates we see have the study skills, independence, personal maturity, cognitive development, critical thinking skills and general knowledge of British primary school kids. They are nowhere near ready for university preparation material.

Every year difficult issues arise as a result and every year that is debate about what corners we can or cannot cut in order to get viable class numbers.

GAC has an entry test on which students are supposed to get 60%. In theory any entry test should be a reasonably reliable predictor of success on the course to which it grants entry. In my view the GAC test is so badly thought out that it is useless for this purpose. Therefore I don't put up much of a fight when students are selected by, shall we say, Chinese methods. I just focus on trying to do the best I can, academically, for the students we get.

As usual with GAC the Shanghai office are being arbitrary and inconsistent about which rules they do and don't enforce and whether we are supposed to be using western or Chinese methods. This may lead to a potentially embarrassing situation shortly.

It would be useful to compare my experiences with what is really going on in in other GAC centres around China. What do other people with GAC experience think about the entry test? Are the rules really being followed? If not how do you decide who gets in and who doesn't? If you don't want to blow the whistle in public then PM me.

Of course if I argue with the Shanghai office that the GAC entry test is worthless and can be disregarded then I should have an alternative to offer. In fact the question has been raised with me of designing a new entry test although I am not sure who is behind the suggestion. I am tempted to try despite the amount of work involved.

So I would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of other university entrance preparation courses such as RMIT, Unilearn or IB. What entry criteria or tests do you use? Specifically do you test other factors besides language skills such as employing psychometric tests to determinine attitude and motivation? Does anyone test students logic or critical thinking skills? If so, how? GAC is a research based course and to my mind the most important skill students need is independent reading. To test that has anyone tried using Independent Reading Inventories of the kind which are common in US schools in China? If you have where did you get materials and what were the results?

[mitylene]

I feel the same also. A bunch of kids I had were in foundation for 1 year and still did not have the level to cope with level 2. They all passed the GAC entrance test, but couldn't deal with all the research and writing that level 2 requires.

Where are we supposed to find these students with excellent foundation? And if they were so good with their English why wouldn't they just go through an agent to apply to Uni abroad?

[Robin53]

Some good questions Neilhrd. I've only had 6 months experience teaching GAC and that was at Levels 2 and 3, so have had no experience with the entry test. In NZ, I taught a compulsory first year university course in Communications which all students, not just overseas students, had to pass to be able to go on to second year. A lot of them had a rather arrogant opinion about having to do it. They didn't think it was necessary, however sometimes varying percentages of the classes got a shock when they failed and had to repeat the course. Basically it was similar to the GAC modules. The students had to learn how to do their own research, about plagiarism, paraphrasing, standard layout and presentation of essays and research reports, time management, and referencing protocols. You would be surprised at the levels of spelling and grammar I came across with native-speaking students, however this was not really as important as learning how to write essays and research reports to standard university requirements. Of the students from China I had, the problems were to do with plagiarism and developing an argument. I encountered exactly the same problems here in China teaching the GAC modules.

I'm surprised to hear the level of English teaching is so poor in Guanxi province. I guess this has to do with the number of years of English the students have had before they do the GAC entry test. On the whole, I've found that at senior high-school, college, and university level Chinese students have a fairly good range of vocabulary, especially nouns. However they only know how to use 4 or 5 adjectives, and have poor control of verb tenses. This is understandable though when you consider the far less complex nature of verb tenses in their native language. Also, they usually do not know how to write compound or complex sentences, and have not been taught the rules of using capital letters. What they have been taught at high-school though is at least a basis for further study in English.

GAC is taught by western teachers, but administered by Chinese education and English teaching "experts". Its a very 'them and us' situation, and on the Chinese side I get the feeling that what the GAC curriculum advises can be ignored to varying degrees. Its a different matter when the GAC graduates get to the overseas universities . Having said that though , GAC is better than nothing, and is the equivalent of foundation level preparation at an overseas university.

[englishgibson]

Robin, there are other parts of China where really poor students with respect to their English language proficiency or their ability to cope with higher education at all, are put through the western uni application process in China. Some of these students go through GAC centers' programs too. It's the fact that Chinese educational system allows some huge gaps in between their primary/secondary school. You could have a school with some fine teachers on one hand and then a really shitty school on the other. All that, in one city surprisingly. Currently, I have a mixture of levels in one GAC class in which are the students from one city, but three different high schools. One has been taught English in L1 and the others in L2 which is greatly noticable in my classroom. Having to deal with issues of my students' poor foundation, their first language interferance or any other habits from their previous schools is a nightmare for me. Either following the vague GAC Head Office standards or creating one of my "own" in such a classroom is an almost impossible task. I wish we had more choices out of the high school with that one great student that I have, although I don't believe we have such an option here.

[ttorriel]

GAC ?

DOS ?

RMIT ?

Unilearn ?

IB ?

[englishgibson]

ttorriel, would you be so kind to further explain your post above? is it that you don't understand the words in questions above or is it that there's some other reasoning behind there?

mitylene, you've begun discussions on similar topics before, and when those discussions went on, you "disappeared". i sure hope you'll come back on this one as this topic requires some attention. we're stuck in the biz where we're left with very few options. i am having a class with students that are completely clueless how to paraphrase their findings out of interenet. they can't even paraphrase the easiest possible sentences as they have not been taught in their high schools how to do it. to make things worse than they are, my GAC students in level 2 cannot even make their own simplest english sentences without structural errors in. and, it takes them for ever to make a sentence of any kind on any topic of their choice too. go figure that one why

cheers and beers to all kinda chinese products for improrts as well as cheers and beers to all kinda chinese students for western unis

[Lobster]

For our program we require a minimum 4.5 IELTS or equivalent. I'd like to see it at 5.0, but recruiters say otherwise. If the students have good study skills and motivation (most don't) they can develop their skills to a level sufficient for undergrad studies. It's just not possible for students with less than 4.5. to get up to speed over one academic year. Beyond paraphrasing, there are issues with plagiarism and citations, proper paper fomatting, statement and development of arguments and the typical Chinglish grammar and pronunciation.

RED

[englishgibson]

5.0 on IELTS is a quite agreeable bench mark for an entry to such courses. i'd even compromise with that 4.5, if the student showed some common sense, general knowledge and/or some other skills that'd increase him/her chances to get through the program. good point above on the length of courses and a requirement to imrpove fast as some students need much longer time. i've seen students on that 4.5 or 5.5 for a way too long time. yes, teaching might be one area to improve in but if students do not cooperate, you'll have to be a magician in the classroom.

in china, language proficiency exams such as IELTS or TOEFL are not always taken prior to enrollments for such prep programs to western unis. from my experience, students get enrolled in based on prep programs' own exams. that also creates great issues as the prep program's exams may not be adequate enough. and, i've seen my centers' exams

to enroll students into western uni prep programs in china, we shouldn't look only on the proficiency exams of english but also at students' abilities to cope with the actual programs we are to teach/facilitate. inferring with above post of lobster as well as the initial post of neil, i can see that if students are incapable to follow, or to research their assignments independantly, it might not be worth it. yes, we get paid, but the result of our work may not be there.

currently, i am in a center where they have little choice but keep the poor kids in. seemingly, they've barked the wrong trees in the woods. so, how rewarding are our jobs really?

cheers and beers to above mitylene's question as well as the woods in china