Job Discussion Forums

[mpluby]

I'm trying to make a decision on a certification course and was hoping for some feedback from working ESL teachers.

Option 1
One of my closest friends wants to do a TESOL course in Istanbul through TEFL International.

Pros
-Being there with my friend would be awesome.
-TEFL International offers lifetime job support and some sort of loose job guarantee.

Cons
-The apartment my friend wants to rent is $1500/month, split two ways. It still strikes me as highway robbery.
-TESOL seems to be the less desired qualification in Europe.

Option 2
I have contacted numerous CELTA centers in Germany and Poland, though if I go this route, I go it without my friend.

Pros
-CELTA is the more desired qualification in Europe.
-My rent would certainly be cheaper than the proposed rate in Istanbul.
-I would have better chances to network with local schools as I'm completing my CELTA.

Cons
-No job guarantee whatsoever. For me, this is a big deal because I am an American.


Before I throw the ball to you guys, I'll provide a bit of background on myself:

-24 years old, American
-B.A. in Economics and Russian/M.A. in Slavic & East European Studies
-Fluent Russian, decent Uzbek, poor German...though I may want to pursue a PhD in Germanic linguistics
-Worked as a volunteer ESL teacher near Krakow in summer 2008
-Desired work locations are Germany, Austria or Switzerland since being there would allow me to work on my language skills. Backups are Poland and Russia.


My questions:

1. With CELTA in hand, what are my chances of finding steady employment in one of the German-speaking countries? I understand that it may have to be freelance, but I'd like to at least be sure that there are enough freelance opportunities out there for Americans.

2a. For Russia and Poland, is certification even that necessary?
2b. If certification is not that necessary, how much of an earnings premium do you think certification would bring?

3. What do people think about the job support and "guarantees" offered by TEFL International? If the guaranteed jobs are in Asia or Latin America, it's a waste of my time.

[spiral78]

Well, Austria and Switzerland are most likely near-impossible for a basically qualified American to get into... The relatively few jobs that open up in Switzerland generally go to people with strong quals and experience, and local contacts and language skills - the competition for few openings is simply fierce (nice place to be, obviously).

I'va an Austrian friend with loads of experience and an MA TESL/TEFL who reports that the job marked in Austria is dire - she's just returned from an international school stint in China and can't find anything in the field. I believe you'd have problems getting a visa for Austria as well - at least, a couple of years ago when I was looking there, it was much more difficult than Germany for a non-EU citizen to swing legal working papers.

Germany is probably a legal option, but the economy is making things tough for teachers. If you scroll down on Dave's Job Discussion board, you'll find country-specific forums. You might want to scan current postings on these for more info.

Yes, for Poland you would need certification. There are many training centres in both Poland and the neighboring Czech Rep, and the vast majority of newbie teachers on the job market have a 100+ hour on-site cert, including teaching practice, CELTA being the name brand, but some generic certs also meet the standard.
Anything less would put you at the bottom of the heap on the job market for the region.

No training centre can 'guarantee' you a job - all they can really do is hook you up with reputable employers. Realistically, you will still have to go to interviews and quite likely teach demo lessons...no employer is going to automatically hire any newbie teacher on the word of a training centre.

You'll also want to consider the fact that you'll have 90 days inside the Schengen zone to land a job and file for legal working visas. If you read the current Czech forum, you'll find that there have been a few (uneven) crackdowns on non-EU citizens without proper working papers recently.

The ideal course to take in many ways is one in the country where you want to start teaching. This way, you'll have local contacts, and you can be sure your cert will be recognized by local employers.

[arabianknight]

TESOL is cheaper

[naturegirl321]

I'd say go with the CELTA course, it's more recognised than TEFL Intl.

JOb guarantee don't mean much. I usually means that they will help you get interviews, but they can't guarantee you a job, unless they place you at their own institute.

There are lots of TEFL jobs out there, you should have no probs finding one on your own.

How did you learn Russian and Uzbek?

Being American, you'll probably run into problems trying to work in the EU, it's hard to get a visa there. Poland and Russia are more viable. Poland's still new EU.

Certification might not be necessary for jobs, but it WILL help you in the classroom. YOu really don't earn much more though.

[Gusss]

Do you mean TrinityTESOL ? This is supposedly equal to the Celta and is the only other course apart from the Celta recognised by the British council. however I have found the Trinity isnt quite as recognised as the Celta. Any other TESOL (ie not Trinity)� will be nowhere near as recognised as the Celta and the "job guarantee" is probably just a marketing scam.

[Chancellor]

Consider looking at some of the other threads where this brand name vs. generic debate has been held.

What it comes down to is this: whether CELTA, one of the other brand name courses or one of the generics, we're still talking about entry-level qualifications to teach English as a foreign language (in non-Anglophone countries). The "industry standard" is a minimum of 100-120 course hours and six hours of supervised teaching practice with real EFL students. Some people make too much of a big deal about CELTA and Trinity, as well as the British Council as if they were the gods of the TEFL world. A CELTA wouldn't get you a job teaching ESL in an American public school (and probably not a British one either) or university. So, let's keep this all in perspective.

I can see the day coming when these non-Anglophone countries finally get some cajones and self-esteem and decide they don't need Anglophone cast-offs with such minimal qualifications. They're going to decide they want anyone they hire to have the same qualifications required in the government schools in Anglophone countries.

[naturegirl321]

[Chancellor]

[Justin Trullinger]

Congrats on almost finishing your Cert, Chancelor. (Sorry I couldn't be more help!)

About SIT- I'm always happy to talk. It's certainly not as big as CELTA; the month-long British course goes WAY back (with roots in the 60s) and is certainly the biggest and best-known in the world. The SIT course is based on the central "kernel" of SIT's MAT TESOL degree, so the academic content comes from a pretty respected source, though.

When we decided to offer the SIT course, though, we also looked into the CELTA and Trinity TESOL. (Also briefly considered doing our own, locally accredited thing, but thought it would be hard to market, due to being less portable.) All three are very credible programs, with serious accreditation processes. I guess that the decision to go with SIT was as much philosophical as anything else; the more humanistic philosophy with a focus on reflection seems to resonate with me and with the organisation I work for.

I can vouch for the fact that the training to be an SIT trainer is rigorous (and HARD) and that the course, being small, is very well regulated in terms of course quality. I think this is one of the most important things- because any course is only as good as the center where you do it and the trainers that you get.

This is why I've never been comfortable with the "120 hours and six hours of teaching practice" mantra. This is part of the industry standard, but a lot more goes into making a quality course. I think class sizes matter a lot. Experience and training of trainers matters A LOT. The course sylabus matters a lot.

I know of 150 hours courses with 10 hours of TP that I wouldn't give you a nickel for. I know of at least one course that hired a graduate to train on the next course. (No real EFL experienc AT ALL.) I know of several where there is a highly qualified "lead trainer," with all the right stuff on his resume, but where a lot of sessions are lead by people that just fell off the turnip truck. I know of courses where practically each session is lead by a different "trainer;" How can anybody even see, let alone support, participant learning in this case? Quite a few courses, it seems, flex their own regulations when nobody's looking.

120 hours and 6 of practice teaching is a place to start. But it doesnt' guarantee anything. It takes more than just the right number of hours to make a good course.

I know, CHancellor, that you've spoken strongly about the "generic vs name brand" debate. I buy a lot of generic products. But in a lot of countries, even generic products are required to truthfully list their ingredients. The same is regrettably not true of TEFL courses. I'm not warning anyone away from courses that aren't amongst the big ones- but you need to check the "ingredients" very closely. And DON'T just believe what they tell you.

The "name brand" courses aren't perfect either- and I like to have teachers from a lot of different training backgrounds on my teaching team. But the name brands do get you some things where consistency is concerned.

Best,
Justin

[Chancellor]