Job Discussion Forums

[Aramas]

Not an Imperialist, an Australian. I use the Macquarie dictionary for things specific to the Australian dialect of English, but to claim that it was an English language reference would be laughable. The same applies to any other regional dialect dictionary.

'English' isn't a group of dialects spoken in England, it's the Mother Tongue, the trunk of the tree of which all dialects are branches (including British dialects). All dialects contribute to the base language and it changes to encompass them. English includes American English along with all the other dialects, and is influenced by it just as with any other dialect. American English doesn't include anything except itself. To claim that American English is a language that is seperate but related to English is insular and parochial imo. Language isn't a democracy, and it can't be bullied, annexed or stolen (unlike countries). Language is a living growing entity that is outside the control of any one country.[/i]

[Steiner]

Wow, I can't get in to Dave's for a day and my topic has grown like those man-eating plants in the movie "Jumanji." Thank you to Arioch. And Aramas for his irrelevant rantings. And to Lajzar for his good, now forgotten, response.

In other news, the evening after I posted my original question (can you remember that far back?), Yahoo carried the following headline:

McDonalds to go on diet in 2005

Please don't bother telling me that news headlines are a completely different situation from normal English (I don't much care whether it's American or British) usage. I know that.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[FGT]

Back to the "the" debate with hospital, school etc
As a Brit (and a teacher who's done some research in order to field tricky questions from students - and they don't get much trickier than articles, especially in a country whose language doesn't have them).

Anyway, I asked an American colleague about this tonight:

We agree that a convict goes to prison but the convict's brother goes to THE prison to visit him.
The Christians go to church on Sunday but the tourists go to THE church to see the stained glass.
The child goes to school every day but his mother goes to THE school to talk to the teacher.
Etc

BUT Hospital doesn't seem to work the same way. My American friend wanted to use "the" in every case.

University was also debatable. My theory on that was that in US English, "school" is used for what, in England, would be "university" education, thus: I went to school till I was 22 (US), I went to school till I was 18 then went to university till I was 21 (UK). My friend didn't agree but always wanted to say "the university".

Then we hit problems; I feel like saying "The Jews went to THE synagogue on Saturday", "The Moslems went to THE mosque on Friday", but "The Christians went to church on Sunday".

HELP!!!!

[bayabule]

I seem to recall a tutor once telling me that Scots have more of a tendency to use "the" before institutions like school, church, hospital than the English (or was it the other way around? I can't remember). Is this right?
I'm Scottish and I tend to use the expressions interchangeably, but now I think about it, I have to agree with all the previous posters. That is, that to "go/be taken to hospital you are a patient and to go to the hospital, you have some other business there like work, visiting, whatever.
My granny, bless her, "goes to church" on a Sunday to worship but "goes to the church" to do flowers or whatever it is she does there that's not attending a service.
When it comes to other religions I start to get a bit confused. In Indonesia I think I usually refer to my friends as going to "the mosque" why is that? There are loads of mosques and I don't know which particular ones my friends go to. Is it to do with my perspective as someone not in that particular religion?

[dmb]

Hmm that is an interesting point. Maybe because mosque and synagogue are relatively new words to English?

[James_T_Kirk]

Ugh. Does it really matter if you say you are going "on a diet" versus "on diet"? I am getting so sick by reading this thread that I need to "go to hospital". Or do I need to "go to the hospital"? We aren't PhDs teaching English at Harvard or Oxford here, so what difference does it make if you teach your students proper British English versus American English, or vice versa? Either way, native English speakers are going to understand what your students are saying. I say teach what you know. With that, I am going to bed (or is it going to the bed?).

Cheers,
Kirk

[Aramas]

Just to muddy the waters further, I think it's in Yorkshire that they tend to dop the 'to', so they would say, 'go school', 'go hospital' etc.

The British regional dialects are rather extreme, but still understandable to most commonwealth citizens. In the 70's there was a series set in northern England called 'When the boat comes in'. Geordies aren't that difficult to understand, but when it was shown on PBS in the US it was subtitled - lol

[naturegirl321]

Do Brits say this? I like apple.
In the US we say I like apples. is it correct without the "s"?

[khmerhit]

apple pie, silly

[SueH]

[West Brom]

Time to dust off the monopoly set and add the article to the "Go to Jail" card I think.

[Capergirl]

Four pages dedicated to the use/misuse of an article. That's amazing. I'm glad you are not students in my conversation class debating hot topics. We'd be there all night!

[naturegirl321]

So why can't you say "I like apple"
BUT you can say "I like apple pie"
English is so confusing.

[Mike_2003]