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Zoot
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 408
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 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: Possibly moving ... with a Japanese fiance |
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ssphinx is by now utterly appalled by this discussion and has decided to stay in Japan with his/her life achievements so far - MEd in TESOL and a Japanese fiance  . |
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adorabilly
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Ras Al Khaimah
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="arabianknight
fiance=bloke
fiancee=chick[/quote]
Sorry AK. I am an American, and guess what it fiance is used for both (as I was taught). But you UK/Ausies are funky, adding ou to words that have an o as the last vowel.
honOUr wtf? HONOR
valOUr? no valor
fiancee? no fiance.
If I misread, oops. I'm one of those funky illmannered americans. |
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spicegirl
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Erm ... actually, no ... sorry, adorabilly, you guys took the vowel out, we didn't add one. Australians, Kiwis, Canadians, South Africans, Irish, British, Americans - which one's the odd one out with the spelling rules? |
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arabianknight
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| arabianknight wrote: |
| adorabilly wrote: |
Arabianknight. Nothing in the op's original quesiton gives the sex of either of them. I did make an assumption that it was a Male OP asking about bring a female fiance to the UAE, but that is based on my experience that most of the spouses who are japanese (that I know) of ESL teachers are for the most part women.
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fiance=bloke
fiancee=chick |
In American English you will find that the first is now commonly used for both. So... one can't assume either way... since you also don't know the nationality of the OP.
VS |
Your gospel begs to agree with English English 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiance
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiancee |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| spicegirl wrote: |
Erm ... actually, no ... sorry, adorabilly, you guys took the vowel out, we didn't add one. Australians, Kiwis, Canadians, South Africans, Irish, British, Americans - which one's the odd one out with the spelling rules?
I'm BA-AC-K!
God Bless Noah Webster! He just believed that the newly-formed American states should have a linguistic distinction from its former affiliation. He simply believed that not only a political change should occur, but a linguistic one as well. If anyone was to blame for this linguistic change of course, it should be squarley laid on "George the Turd" (forgive my Irish pronunciation!). It's well known that 'Merican colonists did not initially seek separation, but rather, correct representation...which they were denied.
La!, spicegirl, there is NO rule as to the "ou" conundrum, if there were, you'd be spelling it "doctour"! Erm, uh, if you combined all of the countries, that you enumerated, populations vs. that of the American population...er...you'd be running a deficit. 
I must add, though, the British Council does make a valiant effort at promoting its variety, which I admire, and...something the 'Mericans don't, either through security of their variety or disinterest in promoting their own...your call. 
But, then why quibble? As Rotney King once said, "Can't we all just get along?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Dictionary
"God Bless 'Merica!" (Uttered by, none the less, LBJ, himself!
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NCTBA |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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It's not my decision... the rules of grammar usage, along with the rules of religion are ignored at will by millions... a few hundred million...
I'm telling you the usage... not the rule. 
VS
(and IMHO, when there was that start in the US to try to correct the abysmal state of English spelling to sound, they didn't go near far enough (enuf). They should have fixed it all generations ago.)
PPS: hi NCTBA... you sneaked in front of me!! |
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adorabilly
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Ras Al Khaimah
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| spicegirl wrote: |
| Erm ... actually, no ... sorry, adorabilly, you guys took the vowel out, we didn't add one. Australians, Kiwis, Canadians, South Africans, Irish, British, Americans - which one's the odd one out with the spelling rules? |
Well actually spicegirl, i would say anything that takes out unnecessary vowels and consonants is a GOOD thing.
are there cities in the UK which are gloustchirescosurlshjoege, and they just calle them the shire? (it is those darn silent vowels that get me every time.)
I swear that some days we need to get a british to english dictionary with proper spelling in it so I can understand anything my brit friends say.... (they really need to learn english.  |
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arabianknight
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| adorabilly wrote: |
I swear that some days we need to get a british to english dictionary with proper spelling in it so I can understand anything my brit friends say.... (they really need to learn english. |
You have British friends? |
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spicegirl
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I wasn't passing any judgement on spelling varieties - just pointing out that American English had taken vowels out of words which originally had them there ... which was the opposite of what had been suggested by another poster, i.e. that British English had added vowels to words which hadn't had these before.
I'm not interested in doing a worldwide headcount of how many people use American or British spelling rules. There are spelling differences, we know this, but sniping at one version or the other isn't useful. Spelling and grammar are constantly evolving in most languages around the world. I was brought up with the British spelling rules, but as I've worked with pretty much all nationalities of native speakers throughout my long teaching career, I've learned to accept all varieties of 'correct' spelling. What I don't appreciate much is being told that my way of spelling is wrong - it isn't ... it's just different . |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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So, why did the Americans and British borrowed the word 'fianc�/e' from the French? Why did you not use the words 'groom' and 'bride' instead?
Now, a question for you, Sheikh Nano:
How do you pronounce the word 'fianc�e' using the American English?
Same question for you, the British? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with you spicegirl. The differences can be a bit confusing at first, but from a linguistic standpoint can be fun and interesting. (and were useful in class mixed with discussion of the various Arabic dialects.) Adorabilly often gets caught out on things like this because he is not an English teacher... so he accidentally steps into the snake pit of English dialects.
BUT, one thing that one has to deal with in the Gulf if one is not British is that one gets constant snipping from a certain group of Brits who have the opinion that only they are correct... of which we often have examples show up here.
Fortunately most of the British teachers were linguistically tolerant and actually friendly.
VS |
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adorabilly
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Ras Al Khaimah
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| arabianknight wrote: |
| adorabilly wrote: |
I swear that some days we need to get a british to english dictionary with proper spelling in it so I can understand anything my brit friends say.... (they really need to learn english. |
You have British friends? |
maybe, until I tell them they are spelling the words wrong and mangling the queens english.
Spicegirl... I was poking fun at the spelling, not saying it is wrong. What I was taught was that fiance was for both men and women (us yanks drop those silly extra vowels, consonants). And since I am married to a sociolinguist, things like RULES for spelling in english often get thrown out the window.
I think it is much more fun and adventursome that way. and I really love reading students essays who take the much more creative versions of spelling... it makes for interesting reading.
VS.. what I really need it a british to american dictionary with the WORDS NOT TO SAY to a brit highlighted... Since they aren't the same for us... I remember my granmother telling me she would swat my fann.....rear end. and that fann..... word is much more polite in the US than bottom... but I was shocked to learn it's meaning to the brits.  |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
So, why did the Americans and British borrowed the word 'fianc�/e' from the French? Why did you not use the words 'groom' and 'bride' instead?
How do you pronounce the word 'fianc�e' using the American English?
Same question for you, the British? |
They are not the bride and groom until the ceremony and many couples never reach that point, so those words don't work. There is never any answer to the "why" questions re language.
For the pronunciation, check out this site: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
Type in the word(s) and in the top left, there are two little flags giving British and American versions. You will immediately hear what happened... in AMEng fiance/fiancee are homophones... in BrEng they are not.
VS |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Or you could just skip the borrowings from French and say/write "my intended." |
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anaxiforminges
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 136
Location: UAE
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
| Or you could just skip the borrowings from French and say/write "my intended." |
Just like Kurtz in Heart of Darkness. |
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