Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

No, it didn't happen to me. I just teach privates, so don't have a contract and really get fired. BUt it happened to a friend of mine yesterday. She was working at the same school I did. The school chased after her for a year trying to get her to work there. They fired her during the three month probationary period at 2pm yesterday and said that she had until 3pm to clear out.

She said there were no complaints, everything was great. Seems to happen a lot at this school. And we think it's because the owner owed someone a favour, so gave them her job.

BUt I'm wondering if this seems to be a common practice. In her contract it said (translated from Spanish) that she had a three month trial period and during this time the school could fire her without previous warning or reason. So they did. Of course you can't take that clause out of the contract. Because she was a local hire, she only got 2 months severance. But the two other foreign teachers got their ENTIRE two year salary, after only working for seven weeks.

And I've seen it in other contracts. Here's one that I was sent lately.
Please note that, depending on performance, your contract may be terminated at any time during the 3 month probationary period.

I understand that trial periods are needed, but it seems to me that if you fly halfway across the world, you should at least be given notice.

And schools that say that they can fire you with X amount of notice and then don't have to pay you severance. However, if you don't complete your contract even if you give sufficient notice, you have to pay a fine.

I just don't get it. Is this becoming the norm?

[Mike_2007]

I think it's becoming the norm. People have less faith in the systen protecting their rights, they fear the costs of a lengthy tribunal, in eastern Europe people know the the just don't win, the connected do, and most know their employers are better connected. A recession also allows employers to use a much bigger stick and a smaller carrot.

[naturegirl321]

That stinks, no job secutiry.

[Justin Trullinger]

Is it becoming the norm? Hard to say- there aren't really any norms out there that run from country to country.

I'd say in much of latin America, it's very possible, given the informality of legal situations and contracts.

I'll add, though- it can't happen if you're picky about contracts. If you only go for solid contracts that don't allow it, and keep your visa in order so that you are legal, it's a lot harder to do.

The law mostly favours the worker here in Ecuador, but you have to know your rights and to stand up. A lot of schools count on doing whatever they want with foreigners, who won't know their rights.


Best,
Justin

[Great_Leader_of_ESL]

I don't know about Latin America, but horror stories like this seem to come out of South Korea and Japan with a high level of frequency. This is even more true in the Hagwon/Eikaiwa world, where people seem to be let go for no reason or silly reasons on a regular basis.

See www.generalunion.org for more details about these shady dealings in Japan.

[Green Acres]

In Vietnam, as well as many places in Asia, the government will not allow foreign workers to unionise/organize, and will not allow them to join already existing labor unions. For example, the teachers union in vietnam will only accept vietnamese nationals.

Not only are the laws usually against a person, the entire system is dedicated to "the other guys." In most cases, one hasn't a paddle or a boat!!

Is it the norm? It's always been the norm!!

[JZer]

[Prof.Gringo]

I think a lot of us bring our ideas about work with us. In America, immigrants (those with green cards at least) can work wherever and do whatever they want. They can even join the military or become cops.

Also, most people don't have contracts in the US. It's called "at-will" employment which is really just a nice way to say you can be fired at any time for no reason.

Many schools would rather fire a foreigner over a local. Why? The foreigner is perceived to be there for a limited amount of time, proabably doesn't have family to support, and they won't fight for their rights even if a contract is violated because they either don't know the system or they will just leave the country after getting burned.

It happens all the time in Mexico. The labor laws are very strong, at least on paper. In reality foreign teachers get shafted way more than the Mexicans do.

[mozzar]

[sollettspain]

Funny you should mention it, it happened to me yesterday actually
Well, the background to this regrettable event is that the Owner/Director and I have disagreed over a couple of issues during the previous 9 months. However, my classes were progressing pretty well, students and parents appeared happy and the Director had recently written me a fairly glowing report in support of my application for a DELTA course.
However, on Thursday he informed me that due to the downturn there could be no guarantee of any classes for next year, although decisions would be made about staffing in mid-august.
This was kind of disappointing, as I�ve worked hard and willingly all year and had hoped for more of a commitment from him.
I expressed my disappointment fairly frankly (although not rudely) but said that I had been offered work at another school and so I would contact them to confirm those arrangements.
The next day, the director told me that he felt I should leave immediately, ie not finish my classes over the next 2 weeks, as it was clear that my commitment to the school was no longer reliable...
I'm still having some difficulties in processing his decision, although he has done a number of questionable things over the last year.
In fact I am now the 5th person he has dismissed since September 2008. This includes 2 teachers, 2 administrators and a part-time accountant.
The majority of us were working without a formal contract, simply a signed agreement on the working hours and hourly rate. Stupid of me not to have formalised it, I admit and I had been planning to secure a contract for the forthcoming academic year.
A number of people I know in Alicante had expressed surpise when I accepted the job at this school last year and warned me that he had an unusually high staff turnover and was a difficult man to work for, and so it wasn't really unexpected.
The next challenge will be to ensure that he pays me for the classes I taught through May. He has assured me that I will be paid, although this remains to be seen.
On the whole, I feel quite a relief to no longer be working there, as the atmosphere among most of the remaining members of staff was (and is) pretty downbeat. I am very lucky in that a) I have other work to go to and b) my wife's wages are pretty good and so we don't have any pressing financial problems, but some of my colleagues aren't so fortunate.

Well, there you have it. Regretfully, this isn't really all that unusual, there are hundreds, thousands probably, of language schools and international schools run by owner/directors who are able to hire and fire according to their own whims and egos, rather than proper observance of ethical practice.

Having said that, there are also many, many small language schools which are run by owner directors who are very considerate and decent people, and I'm looking forward to spending more time with the latter and less time with the former

[jdl]

It worked out well for you. Congratulations and well handled. Nice post.