Job Discussion Forums

[MrScaramanga]

Carlen, I choose to pay to go to a private beach aswell. I'm just more comfortable doing that.

Bet you're right about the Burqini: wouldn't stop the stares at all. Even though it covers skin, it's still form-fitting... I guess the burqini is kinda like the "ozone suit" that kids wear over here, right? Great name too!

Enjoy the hot sun!
MrS

[carlen]

A Muslim perspective on both the Bikini and the Burka. What follows is just a small sample of the full piece but follow the link if you are interested.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/the-burka-and-the-bikini.html

The bikini and the burka can both be used by women as expressions of power and independence. The burka, or ridah, or hijab, can be a powerful weapon of modesty, if chosen freely (and in fact, it is in Western countries like America that Qur'anic modes of modesty in women's dress do finally take on the meaning they were intended to have, because of the freedom of choice. America is the greatest Islamic country on earth). Likewise, the woman wearing a bikini solely out of her personal pride in her appearance has turned the bikini into a weapon of self-expression.

That said, the bikini is not Islamic, because it is immodest. Whether you care about modesty or not of course is irrelevant to the issue of whether you are being oppressed or not.

But in the West, many women wear bikinis to try and attract the attention of men. And in the East, many women are forced to wear burka, especially cruelly oppressive versions. In that case, both are wrong and immoral[1], and this is why I claim that they are equally oppressive.

[Pikgitina]

Lovely, carlen. Thanks for posting this - very interesting!

[johnslat]

Dear carlen,
There is, however, the matter of choice:

1. But in the West, many women wear bikinis to try and attract the attention of men. (The women choose to do so)

2. And in the East, many women are forced to wear burka, especially cruelly oppressive versions.

Now you may argue that the women in the first case have been "culturally brainwashed" into making the choice they do. However, that would ignore the fact that many women in the West do not wear bikinis, and it would also suggest that you are being "culturally hegemonistic" by imposing your subjective definition of "wrong and immoral" upon Western women.

Regards,
John

[carlen]

John,

Just for the record, I suggested an article to read. I didn't even offer a opinion beyond the fact that it is interesting. And the article is interesting! Women covering and uncovering is never a simple choice and no choice anyone ever makes is free from ones cultural beliefs, norms and expectations of their culture.

When I raised my daughter clothing was a constant issue. I dressed her in shorts so she would not be held back by frilly dresses. At five she followed her older brother everywhere on her smaller dirt bike.Climbed trees,swam all the childhood stuff. When she attended school I was in there arguing for a school uniform that allowed her to hang upside down on the monkey bars without the boys teasing her about her panties being on show. At 5 I didn't know whether I should expect her to be stronger enough to tell them to 'piss off' As a teenager she defined her clothing in terms of 'looks', anything from Miss sweet to the 'slutty' look. You bet we talked clothing, it may be a 'choice' but if my daughter only wore what she called the slutty look, is she defined by the look or even worse is she defining herself by the look. I was happy to have the discussions with her because to be empowered takes quite a lot of education. For me, dressing to please herself was ok, dressing to have a known effect on men was ok, just dressing a certain way because you think a boyfriend will only like you that way is NOT OK.

As I said John it's complicated

[MrScaramanga]

John,
Carlen was quite clear she was posting excerpts from a longer article for which she provided a link. Nowhere did she mention she was endorsing or condoning the ideas contained in said article.
Just my 2 cents!
MrS

[veiledsentiments]

It was an interesting article, Carlen. I was fascinated by the appearance of the burqini a few years back. First off because it reminded me so much of the Victorian bathing costumes of the not too distant past in our own culture, and second because it was so much more sensible than swimming in your clothes complete with abaya as I had seen so many doing over the years from Egypt to the Gulf. I mean, once they were wet, the full body outline was obvious anyway. The burqini is a good cultural compromise for them.

Sorry to hear that you are unable to 'turn off' the starers Mrs S. Personally I was not ever a beach person, but it couldn't possibly be any worse than walking down Electra street at 4:00 when you are the only woman threading her way through a sidewalk full of men who all stare at you with what can only be described as anger, frustration and lust. And you are also right that what you wear makes little difference. I perhaps arrived with good training from three years of living in Cairo where the men are notorious for not only their staring, but the catcalls and whistles and comments. The only consolation is that if you are a Western female, they probably will not dare to do anything more than stare. The only problems that I ever encountered was with 8-14 year old boys in Egypt.

Let me just say that it only takes one time to teach you not to be walking past a boys middle school when classes let out...

Is there a problem with the young Arab boys on the beach who wander away from their families?

VS

[Splitting Hairs]

In Abu Dhabi, if you avoid Fridays, you avoid most of the staring. The public beaches near the Emirates Palace are more secluded and safer for families.

[johnslat]

Dear carlen,
My apologies.
Regards,
John