Job Discussion Forums

[gungediana]

question re applying for visas for new countries within the middle east

To get a work visa for say Korea it is more or less impossible to do that from outside your home country. If, for example, I were working as a teacher in Kuwait and I wanted to move to work in the KSA. Provided I had the right documents, would I be able to obtain the visa within Kuwait and move to the KSA to start my new job in a seamless transition? Or would I have to go back to the UK to get the visa?

Obviously it varies country to country, but what are the conventions?
More importantly, do employers and embassies recognise that professional English teachers can't be waiting around in their home countries for months on end, unemployed, waiting for visas to come through?
Making teachers stay in their home country for the entirety of a lengthy visa process is ok for backpackers who don't take the job seriously or people just looking for a one-off experience. But I'd find it difficult to accept that if I had an MA TESOL and bills to pay, a career to get on with etc.

[veiledsentiments]

The only place where there seems to often be a problem with arrangement of the visa is KSA - even when you are in your own country it takes nigh on to forever. For Oman and the UAE, the employer arranges everything. You arrive at the airport and all the paperwork is there. I'm not certain about Kuwait because I was in the states in the Washington DC area before I went there.

Best not to assume that employers spend much time worrying about your being inconvenienced...

VS

[gungediana]

Maybe employers won't worry about me being inconvenienced, but......

If they want professional TESOL teachers who are good at their job then they should treat them differently from just the average backpacker teacher.

Backpackers or people working abroad as a one-off can afford to wait around at home for a few months. But my point is that people who are in TESOL for a living should be able to move from country to country without having to go home inbetween to sort out visa problems.

If countries like KSA want the best professional English teachers, they should allow those teachers to easily and cheaply obtain visas from within whichever country they are based.

[veiledsentiments]

If one is going to the Middle East, it is best to avoid such logical factual thoughts... it just irritates one's ulcers. Since they appear to have few problems at the moment getting teachers... they have zero incentive to change.

VS

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

OP: You list no location, but one might surmise that you've either been to Korea or are in Korea. Let's put you in the perspective of the area in which you seem interested.

Asia and the Middle East are almost polar opposites when it comes to many things. For example, you make the good logical argument that expecting experience professionals to wait around for months on in to get their visas is out of the question. Sir, it is not. And, therein, lies the fault in your thinking. Logic was thrown out the window, especially in the country you seemed interested in suffering in...a long time ago.

The rule of thumb here is: If something happens one way one time, that has NO bearing on how it will happen the next time...or the next time..or the next time. This part of the world is where things get done at the last possible moment when the last possible cup of tea has been consumed. What one must do here is learn to expect it, get along with it, and, get over it. It's the way of life here.

If you come with expectations, then you have surely set the bar WAY too high. One of the aspects that my employer requires is the ability to be flexible. Plans change frequently. Classes change frequently. Student numbers change frequently. The ability to adapt to what happened today and the ability to recognize that things can change completely tomorrow is vital...almost an expectation. In Saudi, I've seen people escorted to the airport within 24 hours. Today, you had a job...tomorrow, you're landing back in Little Rock, Ark.

Now, that being said, of course, I am speaking in generalizations, but the kernal of truth in my post will be agreed to by most posters here 'cept the trolls. Even a stopped clock is right two times a day. And, what I said is not true to absolutely all employers. Especially, in the Majic Kingdom, if your patron is a high -level royal as my first job there had in its pocket, then a simple call from Prince al-So and So's office will have magical effects. Or, if you work for defense providers like I did for the balance of my time there, magical things can happen then, too. Otherwise, you're pretty much looked upon as not much more than a highly-paid Bangladeshi tea boy.

I'd heed VS's information and suggestions. She's been in or connected to these parts for quite a while now. Expectations will most surely lead to disappointment and a bit of resentment.

Good Luck!

NCTBA

[gungediana]

Fair enough!

It's just something I'm a bit worried about. Having to wait around for visas for months on end.

So what did you guys do? Just stay in the same job for a few years at a time and simply renew your visa every year I guess?

I think I've been put off the KSA by reading the posts on here, at least for the time being. I reckon a different part of the Gulf would be better.

I'll be starting off with an M.A TESOL with two years pre-Masters experience with kids and about 6 months with adults. So I won't be getting any of the top jobs initially, I know that.

As for my expectations. I suppose I expect to be not taken advantage of by my employer. To be able to save plenty of money, to be able to go on a nice foreign holiday every year, and to have hot weather most of the time. It's not much to ask, is it?

[Pikgitina]

[Pikgitina]

[scot47]

Modal verbs do not work in this part of the world.

Forget about "should" and "must" and "ought to"

[Stephen Jones]

Aren't 'might', 'may', and 'could' modal verbs?

Or are you saying modals are used epistemically but not deontically?

[scot47]

Modal verbs OF OBLIGATION have restricted validity in KSA. As for "deontically" I request and require some exegesis. I could use some for "epistemically" too.

I thought "Epistemics' was studying drunken Irishmen.

[gungediana]

I asked the question because I see it as being quite an important matter.

Like I say, as professionals a lot of us can't often afford to be out of work for months at a time waiting for visa applications to be processed. If it was common to be forced to apply for new work visas from home, and to be forced to wait for months on end to do that. It would really put me off TESOL as a career.

But I understand that KSA is an exception. Fair enough.

So if I was teaching in Korea for example and I wanted to teach in the UAE at the end of my contract. Is there any good reason why I couldn't apply for the job from Korea, sort out the work visa and all the paperwork from Korea and then fly straight to Kuwait to start work without going home at all?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer all my silly question .

[veiledsentiments]