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Hot-Carl
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Uh, it ain't so. |
Glenski, no offense... but have you even been to Korea? Compared to anywhere in Korea... heck, most places in the world, Japanese cities are the cleanest by quite a margin (unless you're comparing to Singapore).
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| Plenty of open burning going on even in the streets of Tokyo. |
What? Regarding work, governmental and law related things, you're almost always right on the ball. In this case, I wonder if you've even been to Tokyo.
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Garbage may rest under netting, but it hardly protects it from attacks by crows. |
If it's properly under the netting it usually does. Unfortunately, there's usually at least one garbage pick-up area on each street that isn't done properly. The crows make a horrible mess... but then it's cleaned up in a couple of hours. Compared to Korea, which is basically what this thread is about, this is a lot better. The garbage would be still on the streets after a few days there. At least, that was the case when I lived there.
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| Spring uncovers a lot of stuff people have thrown away to hide in the snow. |
Most Japanese cities aren't buried under snow in the winter. For the ones that are (here's where I don't know what I'm talking about, since I've never lived in a Japanese city that gets buried in snow), I strongly suspect that it doesn't compare to the few places in Korea that get buried in snow (NE Korea?).
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| People avoid paying for removal of TVs, air conditioners, fridges, tires, etc. by "hiding" them in alleys and various streets. |
At least they're relatively hidden! In Korea, they'd be sitting on the side of the road out in the open.
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| Offices may have shopping bags and cardboard boxes stuffed with paperwork in the locker rooms and other areas to collect dust or block fire escapes. |
True, but if you're comparing to Korea, at least there are fire escapes at all! 
Granted, I'm sure you're trying to point out that Japan isn't squeaky clean... and it's not, but it is light years ahead of Korea.
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It's not a pig sty here. Shopkeepers hose down walks in front of their shops. Practically everything is triple-wrapped (THERE'S OCD for ya!). But, it could be better. |
It could be better... but when comparing to other countries, especially Korea, it's about as good as it gets.
The two cleanest large cities I've been to in my life are Fukuoka and Hiroshima. Granted, this was mostly in the downtown areas of these cities, but those were the cleanest downtown areas I've ever been to (again, not counting Singapore). The highways here are very clean and orderly. Yeah, there are a few areas with rubbish on the side of the road that's been thrown out of cars, but that's the exception. For a guy coming out of Korea to Japan, it's like comparing and old, dirty county fair to Disneyland. Yeah, Disney land has a few bits of garbage on the ground, but it gets picked up and things look pretty good. Same in Japan.
| eIn0791207912 wrote: |
| Please tell me the heaven of cleanliness and order exists there. Please tell me my dream of living in at least one asian city that knows how to pick up trash and not let animal poop just lay around is real. |
Japan is about as close to your dream as you're going to find. There's not much animal poop. The occasional bit, but the majority of people clean up after their poodles. |
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starteacher
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Overall, I would say Tokyo, in particular, is pretty clean. That doesn't mean I don't ever get litter blowing into my driveway, but compared to other places I have lived (Taipei especially comes to mind), the garbage is generally handled pretty well. |
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anne_o
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 172
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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it is very clean here. they scrub the subway walls and floors and outside of buildings. i always notice if there is a random piece of trash where it shouldnt be because it's so rare.
people are clean here and it's so nice! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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pastis
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, it can only be considered admirable that all the rubbish from the hanami crowds has been very deliberately picked up off the ground and packed and tied up in those sanitary bags, which have been neatly piled up for immediate disposal (as opposed to having raw trash scattered/littered all over the park).
A very good example of how meticulously clean Japan can be. Thanks for proving the point  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Chicken or the egg, pastis? It proves nothing except that even the presumed clean Japanese can be pigs, requiring that someone else pick up after them. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I also thought your picture proved that Japan is pretty tidy Glenski- remember the question was not "Do all Japanese people clean up after themselves?", but "Is Japan clean?", and your photo just illustrated that it is indeed quite clean. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't say Japanese people are overly clean. There are a lot of litterbugs. If anyone ever walks around Shibuya at 5 AM they'll be disgusted, but the services for cleaning are remarkable. That same disgusting Shibuya will be spotless by 7 AM. |
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cornishmuppet
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Glenski, your picture shows a well packed and tidied pile of garbage. By your definition that makes myself and everyone in my neighbourhood a pig, because no gomi station near me is that tidy.
Now, if that picture was the result of you spending two hours wandering about the park picking up the rubbish left behind by a drunken crowd of revellers, then you would have a point..... |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| guest of Japan wrote: |
| I wouldn't say Japanese people are overly clean. There are a lot of litterbugs. If anyone ever walks around Shibuya at 5 AM they'll be disgusted, but the services for cleaning are remarkable. That same disgusting Shibuya will be spotless by 7 AM. |
My favourites are the blokes who empty the ashtrays from their cars on the road while they're waiting at the traffic lights. Classy! |
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pastis
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Chicken or the egg, pastis? It proves nothing except that even the presumed clean Japanese can be pigs, requiring that someone else pick up after them. |
I don't see how it matters, as long as the system works... paying people to clean up the mess is not necessarily a bad thing (it still just proves that cleanliness is a priority). Also, your saying the Japanese are "pigs" is quite unwarranted (wrong, actually), and certainly not proven by that pic you posted.
My own experience of hanami festivities (in various Tokyo parks) is that a fair deal of garbage is generated (many people bringing lots of food/booze etc.), but is more or less organized into piles by the public, with some other trash left scattered around, but it is all promptly picked up and bagged by cleaners (and volunteers), and the park is clean by the next day or so, as shown in your picture. It's quite well done, really.
Face it, Japan is among the cleanest countries on earth, including the giant cities like Tokyo (which is cleaner than any other major Asian cities, except probably Singapore). |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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If Japanese are so clean, why do they burn garbage in the parks and dump over 150 tons of it in just one park? If they are so neat, why do they deposit garbage near bins instead of inside them and lie about coming back later to get it? If the problem didn't exist, city authorities and even the [u]homeless]/u](!!) wouldn't have to spend so much cleaning it up. Well, you just believe what you like. We agree to disagree.
In some parks, such as this one, visitors are asked to bring their trash home with them because there isn�t enough space in designated garbage dumping areas. This inevitably results in many people just leaving their garbage in the park...
The reporter finds some young folks leaving trash in a spot that is not a designated dumping area. When confronted, they tell him that they will �come back and get it later.� Yeah, right.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=9703
During last year�s season, when 1.7 million revelers turned out in Tokyo�s Ueno Park alone, city authorities had to clear about 158 tons of garbage from under the cherry trees there.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/todaysfeatures/2006/March/todaysfeatures_March64.xml§ion=todaysfeatures
The very last person I phoned agreed to meet me at Yoyogi park (in a hip, young, Queen St.-ish area). It was hardly traditional hanami, but it was better than a kick in the ass. When we walked into the park, I thought we'd walked straight into some strange combination of Lord of the Flies and Akira. It was anarchy - people were gathered around huge bonfires made from garbage, some walking or jumping or even dancing through the flames as others applauded.
http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=hanami+garbage&xa=_RpufbaoEbrKya5zr5hDIg--%2C1245157296&fr=yfp-t-103&u=homepage.mac.com/jrpacman/update005.html&w=hanami+garbage&d=OIp2nxlMS2ZB&icp=1&.intl=us |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski...
Even if hanami in Tokyo is as bad as you say (because there certainly wasn't that kind of dumping going on here), you're still talking about one occasion. I visited parks just after hanami and there most certainly wasn't that kind behaviour (dumping of otherwise) going on. So I'd be inclined to believe that those problems are limited mainly to hanami and to those specific places.
It still doesn't change the fact that in general, Japan is much cleaner than pretty much anywhere else in the world.
I lived in China. So the fact that little kids don't squat and take a s**t whilst waiting at traffic lights, or that people aren't drowning, slaughtering or skinning animals at the roadside, or that I can look into a river and actually see water instead of a solid layer of rubbish or industrial sludge and the odd bit of rubbish I do see is never there 2 days running means that Japan for me is almost heavenly when it comes to cleanliness.
The way the OP describes her time in Korea, it sounds as if the place is quite similar to China, so I'm sure she will agree with most of us that Japan really is that clean. |
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pastis
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
If Japanese are so clean, why do they burn garbage in the parks and dump over 150 tons of it in just one park? If they are so neat, why do they deposit garbage near bins instead of inside them and lie about coming back later to get it? If the problem didn't exist, city authorities and even the [u]homeless]/u](!!) wouldn't have to spend so much cleaning it up. Well, you just believe what you like. We agree to disagree.
In some parks, such as this one, visitors are asked to bring their trash home with them because there isn�t enough space in designated garbage dumping areas. This inevitably results in many people just leaving their garbage in the park...
The reporter finds some young folks leaving trash in a spot that is not a designated dumping area. When confronted, they tell him that they will �come back and get it later.� Yeah, right.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=9703
During last year�s season, when 1.7 million revelers turned out in Tokyo�s Ueno Park alone, city authorities had to clear about 158 tons of garbage from under the cherry trees there.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/todaysfeatures/2006/March/todaysfeatures_March64.xml§ion=todaysfeatures
The very last person I phoned agreed to meet me at Yoyogi park (in a hip, young, Queen St.-ish area). It was hardly traditional hanami, but it was better than a kick in the ass. When we walked into the park, I thought we'd walked straight into some strange combination of Lord of the Flies and Akira. It was anarchy - people were gathered around huge bonfires made from garbage, some walking or jumping or even dancing through the flames as others applauded.
http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=hanami+garbage&xa=_RpufbaoEbrKya5zr5hDIg--%2C1245157296&fr=yfp-t-103&u=homepage.mac.com/jrpacman/update005.html&w=hanami+garbage&d=OIp2nxlMS2ZB&icp=1&.intl=us |
No offense, but as a few others have suggested, you've probably just been living in Japan too long  you don't seem to realise what a good thing you have going...
One thing is for sure though, you simply can't compare Japan to most of the rest of Asia... most other large Asian cities or capitals have open sewers and piles of rotting trash left in the streets for long period of times (like try going to Bangkok where the smell is often so strong you can literally 'taste' the odor and get gag reflexes), and you're complaining about a bit of litter left behind in parks during major festivities, all of which is promptly cleaned up within a few days...
I won't say Tokyo is "spotless", but it's definitely a clean metropolis. |
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