Job Discussion Forums

caballo · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 39

I read somewhere that contracts in China are usually negotiated. Is that true? This employer's website stated that salary is between 9,000 and 15,000.
Here is my offer:

*10,000 monthly salary
*up to $800 in airfare reimbursement
*I pay for Residence Permit, Foreign Expert certificate, and physical exam.
*up to 20 teaching hours per week
*80% of salary during 1st month of probation
*free accommodation, but I'm responsible for utilities

The job is teaching English and an AP subject:history. I hold a doctorate in history and have years of teaching experience, but not recent experience in history.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Two things I would definitely change with your list: 1) THEY pay for RP, FEC, and exam. 2) They could offer me the 80% first month IF they were willing to pay me the other 20% (in any form they see fit - - as a "bonus" perhaps?) once I completed that month and they were satisfied with my work. What if they aren't satisfied? Are you fired? IMO, "probation" means you and they are testing the waters. You to see if you actually like the school and its operation. They to see if they actually appreciate your teaching skills. I don't know, I'd definitely talk about the whole "probation" clause.

Other things that would concern me about the list:

Airfare - - 800 USD is about 5500 rmb. That may be about enough to cover a one-way fare. If you are working a full academic year, they should offer enough to cover round-trip. I'd ask about maybe 8000 to 10,000 for air.

20 teaching hours could mean 25 actual classes that are 45 minutes each. I teach 19 periods a week and they are 40 minute periods. I'd clarify that if it were me. 20 periods a week seems more reasonable.

You pay the utilities? That could eat right into your 10,000 pay offering (and is that 10 grand before or after taxes?), esp. during the very hot summer months and the very cold winter months when power usage tends to climb for most of us. A 500 rmb offering from the school would seem reasonable, even more would be great. Also, if you ARE paying for your own electric and all, but doing it by having the school deduct from your pay, make SURE you are getting monthly receipts that show meter readings. Do you know where your meter is? Can you do readings on your own to make sure they are very similar to what you are getting from the school? There's another thread about a poster's struggle with this very issue.

PS: History doesn't change much! Smile

Well, in China it does, but still . . . Laughing

sui jin · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: near the yangtze

Negotiate only if you feel in a position of strength, otherwise the employer may write you off as trouble and look elsewhere.
Depending on the type of school, and the city, this looks good in terms of salary, but why should you pay medical exam and visa expenses? These things I think are normally borne by the school. Also I can't see the justification for paying you less in the first month. Again , not normal practice in the public sector, maybe things are different in private international schools.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

TexasHighway · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 779

What are your "free accommodations"? A nicely furnished apartment to yourself or a shabby broom closet shared with other teachers? Do they offer you a housing allowance in lieu of the provided accommodations if you find them to be unacceptable?

caballo · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 39

Thank you all for your good information.
Kev: I think that is 10,000 before tax; I need to clarify that point. Your points in regards to utilities are also important.
Everyone: You agree that the visa and medical coasts and probation pay and terms are problematic. As a rule of thumb, I've always felt that the employer should pick up those costs for its employees.
Texas Highway: I intend to clarify accommodations.

Although 10,000 is more than most salaried teaching posts in China, the entire compensation package is still not quite good enough for a doctorate, is it? Also, Kev, in particular stated that 'trust'-or lack thereof-should be a concern, as far as probation and utilities go.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I don't in principle mind "probation clauses" as long as they are a two-way street that serves both the employer AND employee.

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

In my first uni an asociate prof in the foreign languages dept at an American University was paid 4k a month. He has a Phd in Applied Linguistics. He did have a sixteen hour work week in fifty minute hours - like me.

The office made it a point to explain to me that he got an extra 500 a month because he had a Phd - whoopie do.

Gerry.

caballo · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 39

Gerry,

He was paid 4000 dollars or yuan per month?

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

RMB wuld be my guess

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Teaching history in English to Chinese students,LOLOLOL. Just another scam to get a [they hope] white face in front of zombie like students learning oral English LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Don't believe it.

An acquaintance of mine came here from OZ to teach in the computer department of a decent university. The guy also had a doctorate or was near completion.They told him he would be doing some research r/t computers. LOLOLOL

They parked him in the foreign students dorm, gave him some nonsensical "project" and then stuck him in front of said zombie like students.

The guy was quite bright. After about 5 minutes of dialogue with me, he got the picture, told them to shove their "research project" and high tailed it.

There's a lesson here for those interested in learning it.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

I would tend to agree.. if it was a legit course they would engage in a university exchange ....

Renegade_o_Funk · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 125

I would just like to throw in my 2 cents.. Negotiating seems like a mixed bag - you never know what will happen. Sometimes the FAO will be receptive and give in some, other times they will completely stop talking to you if you ask to many/any questions. If they will give up the contact info of current/former FT's for you to contact, then that is a good sign things may be open to negotiation.

I believe it depends more on timing & how desperate they are. I.E. a school may budge more if it's the middle of August & they do not have any FT's starting September 1st for scheduled classes.

JGC458 · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 248 Location: Shanghai

Sonnibarger · Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 320 Location: Wuhan

There was a Canadian couple that negotiated themselves right out of a job at my school... they made a bunch of demands some reasonable some not.. the school told them it was a standard contract offered to all new teachers... the Canadian couple said they would continue to look at different options... 3 weeks later they contacted my school and agreed to the contract... the school said the position was no longer available...
If you try to demand more money and less hours than returning teachers they will likely put you on the do not call list... I think a *beep* school is more likely to negotiate because they have less options(no local FT's would touch them） and they can always send you packing when someone cheaper comes along..