Job Discussion Forums

a-train · Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 1

Howdie,

I short, I worked for sunny's english club in Sichuan province this last spring. My teaching ended with them not paying me the last months salary. The way I see it, they didn't provide the few basic services that they advertised and overall, run a rather shady two faced business. I am relaying this story not out of spite, I'm over it. I am posting this as a warning to other prospective english teachers who are new to china and the business and may be considering Sunny's.

here's the story if you're interested:
I am a newly certified TEFL teacher. I came to China last February after having communicated with "Sunny's English Club" based out of Chengdu, Sichuan province. They are a company which supplies schools with foreign teachers and takes a large cut of the teachers pay. The advantage of using them in the beginning, is that they provide services (like visa help) and a level of comfort for new comers to china who are wholly unfamiliar with the language and culture.

Following their advice, I came on a tourist visa which would reportedly be converted soon after I arrived to a work visa. After 2 months of working and my continual nagging, I finally got to Hong Kong to buy the Z visa all on my own expense. No complaints there. The problem was, once I got back to China, the Sichuan government denied me a foreign expert certificate, which essentially meant that my Z visa which should be good for a year, would last only 30 days. I am 23 years old, have a BA degree and a TEFL certificate, and I still don't know why it was denied. I learned about this with less than two weeks left on my now 30 day Z visa. At this point I informed my company that I had no choice but to leave the country, as I couldn't work in Sichuan legally. After ignoring my calls for a few days, they hatched a plan. They said that I could get a foreign expert certificate up north in Xian (different province). I informed them, after researching on my own, that the residence permit is only valid in the province in which you are living or working. This is typical of how the company operates. It was always them pulling quick ones and me researching on my own so that I could sift through their b.s. I refused and they said they would pay for me to go to that province and interview at a university so I could work next fall and that they would pay for a tourist visa back in sichuan so that I wouldn't get in trouble in the meantime. I spent the week in and out of various police stations trying to work it all out. In the end, Sunny, the boss of the company was mad that I wouldn't go back to work illegaly for the last month of classes on the newly acquired tourist visa and decided not to pay me the final months salary.

Ok, sorry that took so long, but I like to be accurate and it is a rather strange and convaluted story. Although exactly what happened to me probably won't happen again, I offer this story as an example of the sort of business Sunny's English club runs. Essentially, they have no problem with lying straight to your face and going back on their word, which they will guilt trip you into taking in the first place. you make more money if you work directly with a school. I signed a six month contract with Sunny's so that I could get my feet on the ground in China. The only thing that I asked of the company and which they professed to offer was visa help. They failed miserably and screwed me over in the end without so much as a goodbye. Damn, maybe I am still a bit bitter.

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

Sorry to hear the bad news but chalk up a lesson learned here.

I remember the name of this place (Sunny's) coming up on this forum earlier this year but you only have 1 post. Did you post a requiest for info on this place under another name? Maybe it was someone else. Will have to take a look to see what was posted on that place previously and compare to your experience.

Anyway, your story is one of the reasons I never want to work at these private language schools. They just make up too much stuff on the fly and I don't want to deal with the consequences of someone else's bad decision making or BS.

There are better places to work legally in China. Hope you find one you like. Good luck.

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

This might be the one I was thinking of:

Sunny's English

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

a-train. Interesting that you could get a Z visa but not an RP. I guess that the school is not approved, so the local PSB refused to issue the permit. Does anyone else know a better or different reason?

The lying thing is pretty standard. Chinese people are under no moral or ethical obligation to be honest. They feel obliged to do whatever necessary to make money or cheat foreigners. They feel no obligation to be honest.

evaforsure · Joined: 26 Jun 2004 Posts: 1217

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

There has been chatter on here recently about needing two years experience to get an RP ... I would guess that is why its been refused...that is only a guess though.

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

a-train,

Did you have a foreign expert certificate when you applied for the RP? Did you apply for a foreign expert certificate at any time?

When applying for the RP, these are the necessary documents that I know about:

School invitation letter
Foreign expert certificate
Medical exam certification
Passport containing "Z" visa or current RP.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

slayer6719 · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:03 am Post subject:

Timely warning they're advertising jobs at the moment! Cool

gastoni · Joined: 10 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

Thanks for the heads up a-train!

Orrin · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 206 Location: Zhuhai, China

a-train,

Your OP has one BIG buzzing fly in its ointment. You stated, and I�m paraphrasing here, that your 1-year Z visa was changed to a 30-day visa when your FEC was denied. Here�s a bit of news for you; THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 1-YEAR Z VISA! Since 2005 or 2006, the Z visa has been a 30-day, single-entry visa which is intended to give the FT the legal right to work in China while their FEC/work/residence permits are being processed.

The reason your FEC was denied is probably because you do not have 2 years of documented teaching experience. That is one of the basic requirements set forth in the SAFEA regulations/requirements for the issuance of a FEC.

Indeed, the deception, double-dealing, and exploitation of �newbie� FTs that you have experienced at Sunny�s is a common practice here in China. That is a known fact that any FT who has been in China for any longer than a few months (if they last that long), knows only too well. But, there are certain baseline requirements for FT certification that all but the few institutions with the strongest �guanxi� can work their way around.

All of this boils down to one simple point. You should have been more thorough in �doing your homework� before you accepted the position with them.

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Orrin,

Why blame the OP? Seems that the agency should be aware of requirements and not bring people here who they have good reason to believe can not be issued legal working papers. Granted, they may assume that all people everywhere are dishonest, sneaky, scheming, conniving liars and swindlers like themselves. It must be shocking to them to discover that some people actually like to do things without deceit, fraud, forgery, perjury, and so forth.

If two years of documented teaching experience are required, what reason would Sunny have to offer people positions when they know they don't meet the criteria?

And why would the OP be expected to assume that this law is now in force when it certainly has not been in previous times?

mike w · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:19 am Post subject:

Hansen:

Would you trust an agency, and not bother with any checking yourself?

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Mikew,

Most people, without China experience, simply can not conceive of the level of deceit that goes on here every moment. People who trust other people should not necessarily be blamed.

When I first came here, I trusted the people I met. It took a while for me to figure out that they were lying, conniving, scheming.

The ESL business is often conducted in a way to purposely deceive foreigners. The contract, for instance. To many people from the West, a contract is binding. Not to the Chinese. The contract is entered in bad faith on their part. They have no intention or ability to fulfill some of the items in the contract. Some contracts are drawn up intentionally to deceive the prospective candidate.

A contract entered in bad faith, intentionally contrived to deceive, is not a binding contract. No foreign teacher should be any more bound by the contract than are the employers. They are not bound at all. They simply do as they please.

A young person who comes here in good faith should not be blamed when victimized by predatory sociopathic types. Nor should an older person, for that matter.

mike w · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject:

Hansen:

I agree with most of what you say; but there has to be part of the argument that says if some people are so naive as not to double check what they are being told, then perhaps they shouldn't be coming over here, or anywhere else for that matter.

And just to balance the situation a bit, not all contracts and companies/schools are out to intentionally deceive and screw the FT. There are a lot that do, but not all.

I have been with the same company now for over three years, and they consistently honour their side of a very fair contract. Renewal of RP's and FEC's are never a problem, even in the run up to Olympics. (My new RP was issued in Beijing two weeks prior to the opening of the games, and was issued for 14 months, not the usual 12)