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EvilTwin2000 · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 34

(I'll have some general suggestions for those considering a CELTA course, but first, hear out my tale of woe:)

Yes, it can be done! You can be bright, articulate, well-educated and hard-working--and still not pass the 4-week intensive CELTA course. Just been there, just done that.

What's so frustrating is I was so close. I participated thoughtfully in classroom components. My written assignments all passed the first time. But when the third week rolled around, I wasn't effective at meeting some of the important teaching practice criteria, and sort of cracked under the pressure of my last "make or break" hour of teaching practice. Everythng I knew how to do and knew I should do went right out the window.

Now what? Hey, I learned a whole lot, and with another hour or two of teaching practice, I think I could have put all my ducks in a row quite effectively. But that's not an option in the course. Now I've got no certificate of any kind and a much lighter wallet. My one great consolation is that based on what I learned (though couldn't yet successfully or consistently implement), I'll be a much stronger teacher, given the opportunity. I'll owe fewer apologies to my first ESL students than I did to the students in the field I originally taught.

Does anybody want to hire a CELTA course drop-out with previous teaching experience in a nearly-related field of English teaching? I'm thinking yes, as most of the trainees I took the course with had previous ESL experience in our Western European country of choice.

SO, if you're thinking of taking the CELTA:
1). I think it's mis-advertised by Cambridge. They say it's an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience. But again, the other people I took the course with (and who all passed) did have previous ESL experience, and I'm sure this made it a lot easier to integrate the teaching methods and techniques.

2). Think hard before spending extra money to take the course in the country where you want to teach. I've seen it suggested, here and elsewhere, that taking it where you want to teach will immerse you in the culture. I disagree, at least for the intensive, four-week course. Taking the CELTA will immerse you in CELTA, and virtually nothing else. I honestly believe I learned next to nothing about the culture, because I simply didn't have the time--unless the bus schedule counts as "culture." Nor will you learn much of the language, except after working on a vocabulary handout for your students, only to be told by those fluent in the language that many of the difficult words you thought students would have trouble with are virtually spelled alike and have the same meaning.

3). Most of us have a gap between gathering information and being able to actively implement that information. If this is you and you have no prior ESL experience, I strongly recommend you consider the longer CELTA courses offerred rather than the intensive four-week course. So many new ideas, concepts and strategies were thrown at me in the first two weeks that when the criteria for teaching practice were substantially raised in the third week, I was simply unable to juggle all the required balls tossed to me.

4). Even if--and perhaps especially if--you have experieince teaching English (comp or lit) to English speakers, be forewarned that this experience may actually bite you in the butt. CELTA requires a methodology that is far less teacher-centered than is virtually required in these fields, and what may have been effective teaching practice in your previous experience will be bad habits to unlearn in the ESL classroom.

5). Everyone who values the CELTA seems to do so for the main reason that it offers actual teaching practice with actual students. I too greatly valued the teaching experience. But it's six hours. Six. And those six hours can make you or break you (me they broke). You will get that much experience in your first two days on the job as an ESL teacher. Granted, they won't be thoughtfully monitored and critiqued by peers and experienced teachers. It just wasn't time enough for me and it might not be for you. But it's the sharp end of the stick, and even if you're utterly brilliant in all other aspects of the course, if your teaching practice isn't up to snuff, you will not pass.

I'm not bitter. Just disappointed. I took the course quite seriously and I worked my butt off. I learned a hell of a lot that I simply couldn't apply in the limited time. Hugs--and suggestions of what to do now--welcome.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject:

First, sorry you had such a rough time. Four week intensives can be rough. Sometimes rougher when you have previous nearly related experience.

I'm currently training teachers on a four week intensive course (SIT, not CELTA, but there are a lot of similarities)- no doubt it can be rough, and for a lot of learners, an extensive course would have a lot to recommend it, if possible.

I'd add, though, that intensive courses vary a LOT. From your post, it seems that you didn't know that you were in danger of failing until near the end. Is that the case?

That seems really unfortunate to me- some people need more support than others. A teacher trainer should know this and be ready for it. If someone isn't meeting standard, it's up to trainers to spot this asap, and sit down with the participant, setting clear expectations of what needs to happen. Letting someone get into the third week without knowing they were in danger would be way out of line, if that's what happened.

I guess what I'm saying is that while you didn't meet standard, your trainers weren't exactly "meeting standard" either, in my opinion. Maybe there's stuff I don't know, and I'm unfairly judging them, but that's how it sounds to me.

But here's the advice I'd give to other would be teacher trainees- choosing a course is a big decision, and even amongst the same name, whether it's SIT, CELTA, or Trinity, there is variation in trainer quality and course quality. Get references from previous trainees and make contact with trainers before the course- this is a big investment, so don't just trust the brand name.

Advice to the OP- there are a lot of places you can teach without a CELTA, and frankly your attitude sounds like someone who would make a good colleague.

And maybe in a year or two you'll want to go for the cert again- second time around, make sure you get one that's user friendly.

Best,
Justin

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject:

Sorry to hear you didn't pass. Sad

Even though you will probably end up in a catch-22 sort of situation (of not being able to get hired without providing any evidence of training, real interest in and commitment to the field etc), I'd be wary however of telling a potential employer that you hadn't passed (because if you were hired, you'd probably come under a fair bit of extra scrutiny and pressure), and I guess that not having passed is as good as not having ever started the course anyway (that is, I doubt if the training center would be willing to "certify" that you studied there at all, even if then presenting that info to prospective employers were a good rather than what would seem a bad idea).

Anyway, at least you have non-ESL English-teaching experience (Comp or Lit it seems) - any qualifications (teaching licence) there? - that you could sell whilst at the same time using what you've learned from the CELTA to make your applications more ESL or EFL-specific.

Regarding your second numbered point, I wonder if, had you been fluent in the local language and therefore not prepared at least thorough monolingual (English-English) vocabulary handouts, that would also have been a problem but for the exact reverse reasons/reasoning ('You cannot assume anything - what if you were teaching in a multinlingual/international classroom! You'd be lazy, wouldn't you, you wretch! - and we prefer you to get used to using the Direct Method/English only in training at least than any implicit much less explicit translation!'). It can certainly be difficult sometimes to know exactly what one "should" or "shouldn't" do with hard-to-please taskmasters (which is what ITT is generally, given let's be honest the inadequacy of a mere month to whip anyone into that great shape), and I'd've thought they'd've cut non-bilingual teachers some slack regardless of the center being located in whatever non-English-speaking country. But I suppose they could be forgiven for assuming you'd have some interest in the local lingo and/or have bought a bilingual dictionary at least, because ultimately that logic would enable the most efficient teaching preparation relative to the "actual" situation. Anyway, what would seem an interesting point, IMHO!

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

This is a very interesting and useful post - I agree that your ultimate outcome is likely to be a positive one. I'd like to make two points about comments you've made:

1)Think hard before spending extra money to take the course in the country where you want to teach. I've seen it suggested, here and elsewhere, that taking it where you want to teach will immerse you in the culture. I disagree, at least for the intensive, four-week course. Taking the CELTA will immerse you in CELTA, and virtually nothing else. I honestly believe I learned next to nothing about the culture, because I simply didn't have the time--unless the bus schedule counts as "culture." Nor will you learn much of the language, except after working on a vocabulary handout for your students, only to be told by those fluent in the language that many of the difficult words you thought students would have trouble with are virtually spelled alike and have the same meaning

I am one of the regulars who recommends that a course is ideally taken in-country. But I'm entirely aware of your points above - you're absolutely right. I'd never recommend taking an intensive course as a way to immerse yourself in local culture or language. I myself was living in Prague's Old Town Square neighborhood and never even made it to Charles Bridge until I'd been in the city for three weeks - I was FAR too busy with the course!!
There are other reasons to take a course in-country. It's got more to do with the fact that the course provider can give you valuable info regarding reputable local employers, visa requirements, and housing. Your practice teaching students will be more representative of the kinds of people you'll be working with when you start, and you'll already know at least a few people in a foreign city/region when you get started living/working there for real.
Obviously these benefits don't really kick in unless you move on to live/work in that region after the course. I'm probably assuming success when I suggest this....

4). Even if--and perhaps especially if--you have experieince teaching English (comp or lit) to English speakers, be forewarned that this experience may actually bite you in the butt. CELTA requires a methodology that is far less teacher-centered than is virtually required in these fields, and what may have been effective teaching practice in your previous experience will be bad habits to unlearn in the ESL classroom.

This is a very important point. Many of the online courses bill themselves as 'ideal' for 'experienced' teachers from other fields. However, teaching language is a very different animal from teaching other subjects, even when they seem related. One of the least successful EFL teachers I've ever known was a high school English teacher - she can diagram sentences all day, but she can't communicate about communication.

I think you're aware that it's not just the CELTA that requires a student-centred approach in most cases. It's generally accepted to be more effective in language learning classrooms in both Europe and North America (speaking very generally here, obviously there will be many exceptions, but I think it's prevalent enough to make the point). Asia and some of Eastern Europe are different to some degree, I believe, on this point -

I'd suggest that you might contact your CELTA providers and ask for a re-sit. You've made useful points about new knowledge taking some time to activate - perhaps you could approach them from this angle. You could also do some volunteer teaching, applying what you've learned, before the re-sit to gain a bit more confidence and experience with student-centred learning in general.

I would think that most course providers would be open to giving you another go at a practice teaching lesson after the fact, and should consider giving you a pass if you meet the standard. After all, you've paid them for effective training - they can't turn everyone into a teacher, but someone who really works on it should usually pass in the end.

Luck!

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Firstly, Im sending you that internet hug you asked for as I can imagine you must be gutted at investing the time and money into the course to end up with a fail at the end. It would be interesting for you to update this thread with the result of any dialogue you have with your course provider about re-sitting any teaching practice, or if there is any way you can get a pass without sitting the whole course again.

Although this is a terrible story for you ... it does show that these genuine qualifications such as CELTA, Trinity are 'real', especially when compared to the lesser qualifications that anyone can pass (often without any real work). As gutted as you must be, you did admit yourself that you choked on the teaching part, and didnt really cut it ... at the risk of sounding harsh (and possibly unfair as I didnt witness your classes or your course tutors feedback) I would suggest you ask some serious questions of yourself, and whether or not ESL is really the right thing for you. As far as I know, from both my own experience and from talking to that of others, students are not expected to be the finished teaching article during the 6 or so hours of teaching practice, but are simply expected to show they can take advice on board, follow instructions and guidelines issued during the course, and generally make 'some' progress towards becoming a teacher.

Whilst the teaching practice can be challenging ... it shouldnt be harder than completing a long detailed learner profile, or a language awareness assignment.

With regards to some of the points you have marked

1 - Although you may find some of your course peers do have previous experience (as you had yourself in another teaching field) this is often a disadvantage for the exact reasons you mention. EFL teaching is not always like any other form of teaching / public speaking / training. Experience isnt always a good thing as experienced students have to 'unlearn' what they know.

2 - I normally suggest people take the course in their own country where possible. Not only for the reasons you mention, but mainly because the course can be hard, and if it is hard ... being in a familiar environment with a support network, familiar food and culture is one less thing to worry about. In addition, if you can take the course at home, it allows you to make contacts at home, who may be able to help you find work locally for when you return home from abroad.

Although I may have sounded hard in this post ... I do sincerely hope things work out for you, and I would suggest contacting the course provider and/or the certifying body for the course and exploring every avenue open to you in getting the qualification without having to go back and take it from the start again.

I would also really suggest you make an honest decision about whether of not this is for you. Im the less experienced contributer to this thread so far, and the more experienced may say Im wrong, but EFL teaching probably isnt for everyone ... if the pressure and expectation of the controlled environment of the course was more than you could cope with ... the 'real' environment of the EFL classroom may be much worse, and far harder to deal with. Although there is pressure of observation on the course .... real classrooms with real students can be much worse.

(by real, I mean uncontrollable pre-teens with no language skills at all, aggressive and badly behaved teenagers, or incredibly demanding adult learners)

RollingStone · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 138

Am sorry to hear about your setback.

My impression of these certs seems to mesh with your own - if one is intelligent, articulate, educated, hardworking and makes a serious effort then the cert is likely theirs. I too would be very interested to learn what specifically you meant by `choke`. I would expect that it would have had to have been something fairly substantial in order to offset the results derived prior.

Also, great feedback/advice on this thread re seeking out user-friendly cert providers. I absolutely agree that someone with no previous experience ought to have been made aware of the hurdles and been at least offered some means to figuring out, in cooperation with the school, a strategy for getting up to speed.

EvilTwin2000 · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 34

Well Nick, I strongly doubt a real classrom will be worse, as it will afford me more than 6 hours of practice to act on 80 hours of information. Besides, I've already dealt with experiences comparable to the ones you mention in my previous teaching.

And I could have sworn I asked those serious questions of myself before I plunked down the cash and moved to a different contenent for a month. I'm looking for a career change, not a paid vacation.

I essentially blew it by half an hour of teaching practice. I had recieved two "below standard" TP evaluations in the third week--once the full criteria for TP were put in place--and an official written notice I was in danger of not passing on the Thursday of the third week. My TP times were shuffled to give me more prep time, but I also had the final two writing assignments to deal with. The first TP in the 4th week went well. The first half of my final "make or break" TP went well... then I set up a mill drill incorrectly and things went downhill from there in the last half hour. I don't think I could have come closer to passing without doing so.

I will certainly explore whatever options I have once the school director returns from vacation. But a "re-sit" seems out of the question, as it was first suggested as a possibility before I was told it was against the rules--after the trainers consulted with each other and the assessor. It's a shame, because I sincerely believe that with just a couple more hours of teachng practice--and I do mean a couple, as in two--I would have been up to snuff.

I certainly don't want to cast any blame on the school or the instructors. One trainer was especially helpful, reviewing my last few teaching plans in advance--and they were solid, focused and well-detailed. I was just a lot better in the locker room than I was on the playing field, so to speak. I needed more practice in following those plans, though not much more, and I'm told this simply isn't an option. Do you know otherwise? Any suggestions as to what options I might have?

Even though I've got a place I can stay cheaply for a month or two in the country where I took the Celta (with the very nice person who provided housing during the course), without the certificate I'm a bit leery of moving back and hoping something just turns up.

Thanks for your responses. Any suggestions for a rudder-less, certificate-less wanna be?

Marquess · Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 165

You have cheered me up. Now I know things could be worse.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Without blowing your anonymity (which I respect - I prefer to keep mine as much as possible as well) could you tell us what country you're in? We might have more pertinent suggestions regarding what opps you might find in that region...

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I didnt expect my comments to be welcomed, but thats OK. I do stand by my comments, especially as you suggest the course and the tutors were supportive.

Of course, you have to explore every avenue with the course director, but based on the fact the tutors and assessors have already said a re-sit is impossible ... it 'could' be the only way to get a cert, is to begin the whole process anew? There are places you can work without certification, as I have done is Asia ... ultimately though, you may find that applications to other countries are still unlikely to succeed without the CELTA/Trinity or equivalent ... so in order to remain EFL'ing, re-taking the course may be unavoidable.

Im actually looking at Europe myself for 2010, and the places I am looking at are those often regarded as the bottom end of the market, and they are insistent on recognised certification ... and often B graded or above. Advising employers that you took the course but failed it is going to be a serious handicap ... almost passing isnt going to cut it.

I dont doubt your dedication to the course ... passing the assignments first go shows that (most people didnt on my course) and moving to another place and investing the money to do the course does take commitment. But a real classroom is harder in my limited experience. Its not just one class every 48 hours with well behaved motivated students in a very controlled environment. You dont have someone to help plan the lessons and look them over for potential problems either.

I know my ideas are not likely to make us best friends ... and I sincerely do hope you find a way out of your predicament and make a move into EFL .... but it has to be said, with supportive teachers and good lesson plans which you admit to having, passing the TP should really have been fairly easy. What would happen if you did sit the entire course again and fail .... You do need to consider that.

Hope things work out for you, and please update this thread so we can hear your progress on this.

EvilTwin2000 · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 34

Spiral, I'm currently based in the US midwest, but took the Celta in Italy, where I'd hoped to relocate this fall (I have US and EU passports). I still might do so, knowing that several of the other course trainees had previous ESL teaching experience in Italy without the Celta cert. I'll be contacting these folks--they were very supportive--to see if they can suggest some leads. But right now everyone in Italy and their brother seems to be on vacation.

Nick, I appreciate your thoughts, but I think we're talking right past each other...

Marquess, glad my tale of woe brightened your day. I guess.

Sheesh, tough crowd here.

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

I have a couple of comments.

Kootvela · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania

I would like to comment on the experience involved in the course. I took a course similar to CELTA, it was offered by an IH. It was intensive, 4 weeks, summertime. I didn't have free time and returned home on autopilot, missed my home bus stop a couple of times Smile

There were 4 people in my group, one of them and me had prior teaching experience and 2 people didn't have any. From my experience I can say that teacheing experienc helped to feel more at ease before the mock students than really helped with methodology because there's a variety of techniques and we were encouraged to try as many as we could. I felt that I knew what I was doing and felt calm but my understanding of methodology wasn't always accurate.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Yeah, it's holiday time in Europe generally. I think I'm one of very few with serious stuff going on in August Very Happy

Taking my holiday next month when the intensives are over, hurrah.

Good luck, EvilTwin.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Generally, I think having teaching experience pre-course is a disadvantage, and I would guess that was one of the difficulties the OP faced. The problem with teaching experience/pre-course teaching practise, is the embedding of habitual teaching behaviour. Practice doesnt make perfect, but makes permanent. All the habits accrued prior to the course have to be un-learned ... and that can be difficult to do.

My experience on the course was generally good ... but I had to work very very hard to stop doing all the bad things that I had been doing in my previous employment. As well as the formal lesson plan, I took my own informal plans to class to work from, and had used highlighers and red pen prompts as continual reminders to stop certain things.

As far as listening to the trainers and feedback ... my experience wasnt that you had to treat them like demi-gods, but actually act upon their advice and feedback. That was the key really ... to actually act upon their advice rather than just nodding your head and going off and making the same mistakes in subsequent lessons.

Good organisational skills are important in making the course manageable ... and following advice, support and feedback are key to the teaching practice in my experience. I was a bit cheesed off on my course when my peers said it was easier for me, than for them, because of my experience. In a training group of 12 people ... I was the only one who spent the first weekend working on the language awareness assignment, and it was these organisational skills that meant I was ahead of the game, not prior experience...(esp as I had an assignment on 2/3rd conditionals, which I had never heard of prior to the course)

The one thing that was seriously in my favour pre-course, was the experience of dating a non native speaker before doing the course. This meant I was very familiar with grading my speech for language learners.