Job Discussion Forums

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

A lot has been said about BAE recently. Is it true that they only employ white teachers? I have a friend who isn't white, but he's interested in applying. Is there any point?

Mia Xanthi · Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject:

I know a personal acquaintance (male African-American) who is working for BAE. He loves it.

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

That's good. Is he encountering any problems there because of the color of his skin? I've heard that some teachers in Saudi, mainly African American Muslims are given a really hard time. It's interesting and pleasing to know that he's happy because there has been so much negativity about BAE recently. Can you expand on this (his happiness)? Thanks in advance.

tambok17 · Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 23

My feeling is that Black American Muslims are treated better in Saudi than white Americans in many ways. At least they can pass for a Saudi. An Anglo Saxon person cannot. They are not targeted by terrorists, not overcharged and are even invited into Saudi people's homes- white people are rarely if ever invited. But again, I do not know the whole picture because I am not an AA myself, but it seems that they are happier in Saudi than they are in the US.
No police harrassment, either.

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

I once taught a group for a few months and there was a black Saudi in the class. He sat by himself and nobody really spoke to him. It was hard to get him to participate and he was such a lovely chap-a perfect student in fact. This scenario has occured more than once with different black students. It's really sad. You feel quite helpless to do anything about it because it seems so engrained into society, but I guess trying to make a change in the classroom is the least that we can do as teachers. Likewise, I once went for an interview and the Saudi who interviewed me was complaining about the fact that they had had lots of people applying but the problem was that many of them were black. It's amazing when you think that it would appear that black teachers can have a hard time (if they can get past the hurdle of actually being given a job) and black Saudi students also. I remember one black colleague telling me that he had been offered a job and the employer seemed really happy. The teacher then sent the employer a copy of his passport and some pictures and was shockingly contacted quickly after and told that there had been some sort of misunderstanding and that they could no longer offer him a job.

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject:

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

Thank you, Cleopatra.

It's quite clear that different people have had different experiences and it's extremely helpful and beneficial that we can all share those experiences on a board like this. I think, as teachers, information such as this helps us to understand better the environment we live and work in and thus, hopefully, enables us to improve the situation by taking an informed stance to a solution to the problem aided by what knowledge we have gleaned or learnt.

It would appear that African American Muslim teachers (working in Saudi) are sometimes given preferential treatment, but, on the other hand, are sometimes discriminated against. Is that the case with black Saudi students? I think these issues would be good issues to research.

johnslat · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject:

Well, the problem is the same as it would be in other countries: there are racist idiots everywhere so Black EFL teachers/students always face the possibility of encountering prejudice.
I had Black colleagues (from the USA and from Africa) and Black Saudi students during my time in the Kingdom. I never personally witnessed any of them being discriminated against; however, I'm pretty sure it happened, at least on occasion.
Racism will be present anyplace there are ignorant/stupid people, so that doesn't narrow down the field at all.
Regards,
John

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

Thanks John for that. Can I however make a constructive comment about something that you wrote in your post?

Twentyplus · Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 17

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

Twentplus,

That brings tears to my eyes as I write.

I hope that some of the recruiters/ managers/ directors, etc. read this thread as I'm sure some of them browse the Cafe and are affected by what has been said. Rather I would like to address any person in charge of any institute, school, university, etc., to give our fellow humans a chance and support that they need. Somebody needs to start the ball rolling. So here we go:

IF YOU ARE IN AN EDUCATIONAL POSITION OF AUTHORITY IN SAUDI ARABIA PLEASE TREAT THE AFRICAN AMERICANS AND ASIANS AS YOU WOULD THE WHITES. I'M WHITE AND I'M SICK AND TIRED OF IT AND FEEL ASHAMED WHEN IT HAPPENS, SO WHAT ABOUT MY NON-WHITE COLLEAGUES? YOUR RELIGION DOESN'T PROMOTE RACISM, SO WHY DO YOU? A LITTLE CHANGE IS BETTER THAN NONE. MAKE THAT CHANGE. PEOPLE NEED EDUCATING AND YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE CHANCE TO DO JUST THAT.

Neil McBeath · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 277 Location: Saudi Arabia

Mr. TEFL,

To answer your original question.

YES. They did and they do.

Despite the outpouring of class-bias from Marqemark on a now closed thread, BAE Systems wants competent people who will deliver the programme that has been set out by the Royal Saudi Air Force.

While I was working at TSI (2005-2007) I was working alongside Sudanese, Lebanese, American (black and white), Canadian, South African, Australian and New Zealander teachers, and several whose nationality was never mentioned.

joeboe · Joined: 01 Aug 2009 Posts: 12 Location: Santa Monica

Mr TEFL · Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 35

Thank you Neil. I'm curious to know why you only stayed 2 years though (if that's not too much of a personal question, sorry)?

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: