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basilbrush
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
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 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Also say if you were in Japan in a different city for a year, one year ago, left for a year, came back to a different city and got a bran new visa in new passport, what then? |
Look, do you want to stay in Japan or not? Leaving for a year, popping back in for a year, popping out, etc. seems like a terrible amount of fuss and frustration.
1. What are you going to do for that year out of Japan? Will it further your teaching career? Do you WANT one?
2. Look at things from a mature point of view. Pay the required fees.
Thanks for the replies.
I only ask because I was in Japan for a year, then left for a year before coming back, just wanted to know if they'd catch me out and make me back pay. |
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basilbrush
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, also if you lost your job but stayed anyway would you still have to pay for the time that you were unemployed? |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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While not exactly directly connected I am wondering about something.
The last time I renewed my visa it was done without any reference to me needing to be enrolled in the Kokumin Hoken system.
Now, If I walk into the ward office in a month ( as I will be moving ) and make my change of address as well as ask to be enrolled in the insurance system do you think they will make me make back payments for the 4 years I was here without being enrolled in the national system?
Im hoping if I voluntarily enroll before the new changes take effect they might take pity on my and not force me to make back payments.
Any thoughts/experiences? |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:48 am Post subject: |
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The new laws take effect from April 2010- it is theoretically for any visa extension after that that they will ask to see proof of being enrolled in a national insurance scheme.
I have read many times that they will only ever ask you for up to 2 years of back payments. It seems unlikely that they would let you off that, but you never know, if you look sad and pitiful enough and the staff concerned is a soft touch, you might be lucky- let us know how you get on. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Yawarakaijin wrote: |
Im hoping if I voluntarily enroll before the new changes take effect they might take pity on my and not force me to make back payments. |
No. You still need to make back payments. It's the law. You don't have to do it on the spot, you can work out a payment plan with them. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| basilbrush wrote: |
| Sorry, also if you lost your job but stayed anyway would you still have to pay for the time that you were unemployed? |
Yes.
You aren't allowed to have any 'blanks'. National insurance is for people who AREN'T employed full-time by a company, it's just that many companies are balking at enrolling foreigners into their insurance.
This law is the same for all Japanese people. The only difference is that we can get denied a visa for not being enrolled and therefore kicked out of the country. That can't happen to Japanese people, but there are a number of Japanese people who aren't paying because they simply cannot afford to. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Freshnessben wrote: |
| Just out of interest, is this a requirement for all citizens in Japan (i.e Japanese people as well)? Or is it aimed at foreigners? Naturally, most Japanese people will have insurance through their work but there must be a number who don't have the required insurance. |
Read here.
http://www.nationalhealthinsurance.jp/nhi.asp
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/index.html
Essentially:
The main social insurance systems for salaried workers in companies and factories in Japan are the Employees� Health Insurance (KENKO HOKEN) (Government-managed type and the Society-managed type) as the health care insurance and the Employees� Pension Insurance (KOSEI NENKIN HOKEN) as the pension insurance.
As for the self-employed workers and non-employed people, there are the National Health Insurance (KOKUMIN KENKO HOKEN) and the National Pension (KOKUMIN NENKIN).
As the specific work-based insurances, there are the Seamen�s Insurance for workers on board a ship, and the Mutual Aid Associations for public services workers such as national and local government employees.
| Yawarakaijin wrote: |
The last time I renewed my visa it was done without any reference to me needing to be enrolled in the Kokumin Hoken system.
Now, If I walk into the ward office in a month ( as I will be moving ) and make my change of address as well as ask to be enrolled in the insurance system do you think they will make me make back payments for the 4 years I was here without being enrolled in the national system? |
I suspect you will be told by immigration to get on NHI or no visa renewal, and you will likely be told by the ward office to start making backpayments. Two years max is what I heard, too. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Two years back doesn't sound too bad at all.
I was just curious as to whether or not anyone had any recent experience.
Perhaps Japan is no longer the place where rule after rule is just simply ignored or where unfathomable slip ups still occur.
We had a guy in our company who managed to avoid his ward tax for SEVEN years! This was back in the day when you were lucky to get a 2 year visa so he renewed quite a few times. Came back to Japan after a stint back home, to work in the SAME WARD, no one batted an eyelash. LOL.
I guess I am just kind of interested in how this is all going to play out. I mean honestly, what is different now? Just because in order to get a renewel you need to prove your enrollment in national health? I mean isn't it already on the books that everyone needs to be on at least one of the two systems already!? Yet us foreigners have been staying off if for years.
Meh. I guess im just still a little miffed that Gaijin cards are now handled by the Ministry of JUSTICE? I mean, what does that say about their attitude towards us in the first place?
Ahh, Japan  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Yawarakaijin wrote: |
| Two years back doesn't sound too bad at all. |
Really? 12 months x 2 years x 25,000 per month = 600,000 yen. Not exactly small change. And that's on the low end.
| Quote: |
| I guess I am just kind of interested in how this is all going to play out. I mean honestly, what is different now? Just because in order to get a renewel you need to prove your enrollment in national health? |
I believe you also have to show proof of paying taxes.
| Quote: |
| I mean isn't it already on the books that everyone needs to be on at least one of the two systems already!? Yet us foreigners have been staying off if for years. |
Yup, many have been staying off it. Kiss that luck goodbye. Things are tightening up. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Two years back doesn't sound too bad at all. Really? 12 months x 2 years x 25,000 per month = 600,000 yen. Not exactly small change. And that's on the low end. |
Well being here for 4 years with foreign insurer, I still had to have the money in the bank to pay up front for any potential injury so the cash is there in my emergency fund. 2 years back payment sounds much better than 4 or 5 though 
Being single with no responsibilities helps. I am sure I would be singing a different tune having to explain to the misses that we wouldn't be taking any holidays for the next 3 years.  |
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philchlee
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: no ward office tax if you are unemployed |
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I have checked with the ward office and they said you only pay tax when you are employed and they calculated based on your gensenchosu hyo.
So if you do not have any records of income and yet stay in Japan, you do not pay any resident tax.
Also, it probably does not matter if you did not cancel your reentry permit and still return to Japan for holidays, and keep your bank account open. Of course, before leaving Japan, settle resident taxes for the previous year.
Do you guys think I am wrong? I have double checked with the ward office many times on this, yet I could be still loss in translations as sometimes different officers say different things. |
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dove
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 271
Location: USA/Japan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I don' t think back taxes and back insurance payments will slip through the cracks anymore. When I returned to Japan after 9 months in Brazil, within a month of registering at my local city hall, I received a bill for back local taxes (from another city). I signed up for national health insurance and I received the bill for 9 months of back payments within 2 weeks. They automatically divided both bills into 4 installments. (There was a late charge added to the tax bill). I paid everything off, of course. I am going to be self-sponsoring in January, so I need to do everything by the book. I didn't sign up for the pension plan (no one mentioned it when I joined the national health insurance), but I better check to see if I need to. Maybe I will have more back payments coming my way.... |
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philchlee
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think you only have backpayments once you sign up for it the first time. If previously you were on company insurance and you left that company, you will only have backpayments once you register for the government health insurance plan and do not pay for it.
For pension, if you are unemployed, the ward office can contribute for you for 1 year if you have an official letter of unemployment from your previous company.
If the ward offices give you a bill for back payments, it is because you have left Japan without settling your resident tax for the previous year. For every month that you do not earn income in Japan, you do not need to pay for any resident tax for that period. Of course, correct me if I am wrong. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| philchlee wrote: |
I think you only have backpayments once you sign up for it the first time. If previously you were on company insurance and you left that company, you will only have backpayments once you register for the government health insurance plan and do not pay for it.
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The problem is that most foreigners are on neither company insurance nor national health (many use, in fact dispatch companies in the past have suggested they use, travel insurance), and many would have a very hard time paying for this insurance without significantly altering their lifestyle (moving to an even smaller apartment in a worse area, if they aren't trapped in an eikaiwa-owned apartment, not being able to pay off student loans in their home country etc). With paying back two previous years, that could be the final straw for foreigners.
| Quote: |
Really? 12 months x 2 years x 25,000 per month = 600,000 yen. Not exactly small change. And that's on the low end.
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And that's just the back payment. That's on top of the 300,000 that you need to pay the first year (2 years back pay **plus one year current pay**). So your first year, it will be about 900,000, unless you can stretch the back payment over more than a year (in which case, you could be looking at 600,000 two years in a row - back pay of one year 300,000 + current year 300,000 twice). And it will amount to 300,000 off of the salary every year after that. All told, when you look at the salary (the one that has now dropped from an average of 250,000- 270,000 to an average of 220,000 to 250,000) compared with the cost of living (subtracting the 25,000 each month for insurance, then subtracting resident's tax, the high rent etc) between Japan and other countries (Korea and Taiwan in particular), then it seems that earning money won't be a reason to come to / stay in Japan any more. |
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Mosley
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| As Gambate said...and I've been saying it for nearly a decade...if you're not on JET or don't have one of the dwindling number of plum univ. jobs...it is NOT worth coming to Japan to teach anymore, unless "teaching for food'' is your bag.... |
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