Job Discussion Forums

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

Hi, first post here (although it may be a double post, but I think my session timed out before I posted the first one). Apologies for any gaffes.

I've been a lurker here for a while and have learned quite a bit so far. I have a B.S. English (did an extra math class + a little comp. sci.) for the B.S. instead of B.A and have been a Technical Writer in Silicon Valley, USA (north. Calif.) for the past 20 years.

For the last few yrs. I've thought of a career change to teaching. (My 2nd yr. of college, I tutored college peers in English, some adult ESL students and local high school kids, and enjoyed it quite a bit.) I have excellent verbal and interpersonal skills and am tired of spending the majority of my time behind a key board. My preference would be to teach young adults and adults in a junior/community college or adult ed. center.

My "daydream" scenario is to teach in the US for a few yrs. to get experience (and hopefully for my Thai wife to get naturalized US citizenship). I'd then like to explore teaching in places like the middle east or the parts of asia that are more lucrative; both places allowing my wife and I to get to Thailand in 5-6 hrs. rather than the current 18 hrs.

Here are my questions:

1) I'm considering doing an MA TESOL or an MA Linquistics. I'm leaning towards the latter.) I assume the MA Linguistics would provide me more flexibility, to teach not just ESL but basic English Lit. and/or Tech. Writing (My freshman English teacher had an MA Ling.). Is this assumption correct?

2) I'll be 49 next March, so realistically I'd be looking for teaching gigs when I'm 50-51. My plan is to start in the US where there are age discrimination laws (but they might not be easy to enforce while hiring). Would this be an issue? I'm expecting to work close to 20 more yrs. to fund my retirement. (I don't expect much will be left over in Social Security, the US Govt's pension "scheme".)

Any advice/opinions much appreciated. (Apologies, too for the lengthy first post. My current(?) career emphasizes economy of words and precludes verbosity, so I tend to "bloviate" when writing in other mediums.)
Thanks!

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

Sorry, I mentioned the teaching of Tech Writing & English Lit. as a possibility for teaching at Junior/Community College level here in the US. This is what I'd hope to be able to do with an MA Linguistics and my prev. experience to get started in teaching. After maybe 5 yrs. (not firm on that) I'd look to explore teaching overseas and at that point, I'd expect to be teaching ESL. (Sorry if that wasn't clear from my OP.)

But that makes me rethink my second question. Since I'd be looking to get teaching experience here in the US for a couple, few yrs first, what are the prospects then for a 56- 58 yr. old guy, with that degree and background.

Thanks for the response.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Age wise, it might be hard, often the cut off is 55 or 60 for a visa.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I may need more caffeine, but I'm not completely certain what you want to do. We also need to get a couple of terms straight:

Teach ESL = teach English in the USA. Teach EFL = teach English in Japan.

You mentioned teaching "young adults and adults in a junior/community college or adult ed. center", and now we've established that that would be only in the USA.

What and where do you expect to teach abroad with your MA?

For someone with an MA and some ESL experience in the USA, if you came to Japan, you'd still have to start on the bottom rung of the ladder: conversation school or ALT in public school. A year or two later, you could look at direct hires in private JHS/HS, perhaps even junior college or university. Perhaps. The market is terribly flooded right now, and most university work is PT.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

dirimini · Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 74

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

dirimini · Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 74

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

So I know it sounds weird, but I want to thank you all for disabusing me of my fantasy. Shocked

This was: a) get the MA Linguistics; b) teach adult ed/comm. college for a few yrs; c) get an EFL job [perhaps in the Middle East for OK pay] - use that to travel to & from Eur. & Asia before retiring.

I wasn't expecting to jump into top level positions after teaching here in the US, but I figured to at least land something like an EFL job at a Uni in Abu Dhabi or Dubai.

It sounded so nice, but I'd rather hear the truth now, than learn the hard way later. I'm still going to research some more on this end though. (I'm meeting a retired professor of mine from way back, to get his feedback.)

I think all you folks are correct (particularly about things changing the last 25 yrs, regarding the junior college teaching landscape.) Surprised

I also registered for an information seminar the U. of Cal. Santa Cruz (UCSC) extension (local classes here in Silicon Valley) is holding regarding their TESOL cert. program. They have an agreement with U. San Francisco, whereby you can transfer the cert. credits and get an MA TESOL in 1 yr. of full time classes.

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

Okay, I'm back and I hope you folks are still there. I've done a little research, and I'm not sure where you all are coming from with the "No way, only Ph.Ds teach freshman comp./lit classes. And there's no way you'll get a decent job with an MA Linguistics and a few yrs. teaching experience."

1) The junior college I attended 25 yrs. ago, is an excellent school, by all accounts. A survey of the full and part time instructors in the Language Arts dept. turned up ONE person with a Ph.D out of about 15 full and part time faculty. Almost everyone else had an MA or perhaps 2 MA's. (Many with a BA in English, but an MA in something else, like Ed. or French, etc.) Now, I'm not saying it's not competetive (particularly at this school), but I'm not talking about full-tenured positions at Stanford/Harvard! There are people teaching college freshman lit & writing classes with MAs in Linquistics (and other degrees) and often times with experience outside of education (i.e. business, marketing, or like me, tech. writing).

2) GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
"I've never heard of anyone with an MA in (Theoretical) Linguistics teaching English Literature."
Well, in one of my earlier posts, you'll note my freshman college English teacher/prof. had an MA Linguistics. Now, I don't know if it was "theoretical" linguistics, but I'm positive it wasnt' computational linguistics.
The degree I'm interested in is from San Jose State (Calif State U.). They offer an MA TESOL and an MA Linguistics; both taught in the "Linguistics and Language Development Dept." From their web site:
"The MA - Linguistics provides students with an interdisciplinary education in the scientific study of language. ...Other graduates pursue teaching careers in language and linguistics in domestic and overseas institutions."
Kind of what I was thinking of. But some on this board seem to think otherwise.

3) There are jobs in the Middle East (UAE and Saudi), that are advertised on this board that require only a BA and 2 or more yrs. exp. The pay, while not a king's ransom, is not bad (usually tax free). There are even better positions I've seen advertised, for people with an MA Linguistics/TESOL/Education/English + 2-3 yrs. experience. (One such advert ran for several weeks on this site, and they kept upping the salary.) Those are Uni. positions, and would be my ideal situation. So the whole premise of my OP was to emulate the requirements for those types of job listings.

All I got from you guys was a "Doesn't make sense." "You'll start at the bottom run." "Only Ph.Ds or those with grad. degrees in Eng. Lit. teach freshman English/composition."

The only, seemingly sensible reply was from naturegirl321, who answered my concerns about age limitations.

I guess I just find it hard, that someone who's had a writing job for 20 yrs., does an MA Linquistics and gets 3-5 yrs. teaching exp. under their belts in the US, is going to have problems finding EFL work. If that's the case, then I thank you for saving me the time, money and effort. But like I said, it sounds hard to believe.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

SidGlickman · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Silicon Valley, USA

dirimini · Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 74